proffessional dog fights inside story last night on ch2

[bundy_zigg]

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)


They must have mixed it up, i bet it was a pittbull!!

 

[waruikazi]

Everyone gets all up in arms about dog fighting but not many people get upset about the greyhounds. Do people realise that greyhounds are more often than not killed if they don't perform, get injured or are just too old? (And too old is generally just over a year).

 

[Mystery]

Everyone gets all up in arms about dog fighting but not many people get upset about the greyhounds. Do people realise that greyhounds are more often than not killed if they don't perform, get injured or are just too old? (And too old is generally just over a year).

They are a beautiful gentle dog - I love them. I remember going to the vet a few years ago, I had to go out the back to get my dog from the kennel. I spotted a greyhound around the corner on this little grassed section, she was looking very sad and lonely. I asked the vet why she was there. She was used for blood transfusions, that was all. Very sad.
I have 7 dogs, I would like to be able to save them all but it's not practical.

 

[NinaPeas]

I don't care why there were originally bred, or what 3 breeds they came from, or who owns what.

All I care about is that In this day and age it's sad to see people still find a sport in dog fighting, and I wish all the people involved were fined heavily or jailed.

 

[Isis]

Everyone gets all up in arms about dog fighting but not many people get upset about the greyhounds. Do people realise that greyhounds are more often than not killed if they don't perform, get injured or are just too old? (And too old is generally just over a year).

There is the greyhound adoption programme as well as a lot of the smaller trainers keep their dogs until old age. Granted there is a lot of dogs put down but there is also a lot going on to stop or cut down this practice. Also too old is not generally one year, more like 4-5 yrs. We still have our old race dogs and one is nearing 11. There is a lot of good people in the greyhound industry so please dont generalise. I know in vic they are trying to bring in more regulations to cut down needless euthing of dogs.


Also couldnt agree more with Ishka....

 

[ihaveherps]

I dont know why I bother even entering this thread, but I will put my 2 cents in anyway. Before I get jumped on for being pro-fighting, I am not, I just understand where they come from. I may sound somewhat for the practice of fighting dogs, but I am just trying to put some information across.

Amazonian, Im with you most of the way, I have owned propper Pitty's, not the big pretty red-noses and such you see around, but a propper game bred pitty, and have had a fair bit to do with them, and can tell you that they are only called "American Pit Bull Terriers" because that is the place that first registered them as a breed. The linage of the Pitbull is deeply seeded in the UK, although the yanks are largely responsible for the larger frame we associate with the breed today, they were originally a much smaller dog.

Anyone who believes that Pittys were bred for pigging or bull-baiting are slightly confused. The pit-bull is a purpose built fighting dog, it may have been partially derived from bull-baiters, but a few breeds were added to the mix at that point, to align stamina and build to the lock-jaw of the baiters. Most dont realise that the staffy is nothing more than a domestic quality pitty... and that the Amstaff was just a re-build of a pitty ( not a perfect re-build, as the Irish white terrier had become extinct by that point in time, and is proven via the throwback of rottie colours in some pups which are supposed to be euthanased.... the rottie plays no part in the pit-bulls make-up), both of these breeds are supposed to be safe when it comes to the BSL in regards to pittys. I could keep going....

Fighting dogs like was shown in the show is nothing more than barbaric. There is actually a set of rules to fighting dogs, that seems to have been thrown by the wayside at some point. A real dogman, be it fighting dogs, or hunting dogs, loves their animals, in some cases more than their own child, and would not risk the life of their dogs unnecessarily, but it seems the hillbillys have taken over the game, and the animals suffer for the humans neglect. I could go on and on about the rules, why do you think the pit walls are only 3ft ? so they can bail if not up for it.... if a dog turns 3 times, it is also automatic disqualification, as it is a sign of lack of game..... owners can pull a dog that isnt up for the match at any time..... the list goes on. It seems that the real dogmen have gone the way of the dodo though.

I have never rolled a dog i have owned, although I have bought from good stock, and pups that had won kennel scraps before weaning ( not pitted but normal highrachy stuff ). My Pittys were the most loyal dogs i have ever known, good with kids, good with people, and if another dog was in the frame he would just walk up, lean forward, sniff, turn their heads to show their lack of fear.... if the other dog didnt take the opportunity or show agression then it all disolved and they were sweet.

I dont usually post this long, but I have no time for the ignorant. Anyone who hunts with dogs will tell you, a pitty has no place on a pig, they let go and try to fight them, not a good thing when you face up to a set of hooks, bacon doesnt discriminate. Fighting dogs are fighting dogs, and there is no breed in the world that has had as much effort put into kurbing man biting as the pit-bull has. BSL is crap, when i know that the pitty is almost gone here, I promise I will get good lines, and keep them going. All the anti-pitty posse, do your homework, and do some research into temprement testing, and post the list for us.... lets see how your safe labrador scratches up againts a pitty.

Herpies.

 

[Dipcdame]

to whiteyluvsrum - you stated in your list of dogs bred for fighting, the english mastiff. this breed was actually originally bred by gamekeepers for personal protection. This was in the days when the death penalty applied to poachers when caughy. With so much at stake, gamekeepers lives were at risk because poachers would rather 'do away; with the threat of being caught and ultimately executed. Therefore, the gamekeepers developed a dog with strong haunches that would think nothing of bringing down a man and holding him till the gamekeeper could catch them up, ensuring the gamekeepers safety. The dogs were bred for strength and courage, NOT dogfighting, or fighting of any other sort.

Although I must admit, I find it hard to belive when I look at my fur-baby who is a shepherd cross english mastiff, a big boofy baby, who is scared of old ladies, and thunderstorms!! He's a 'gentle giant' who looks after my granddaughters when they are in the garden with him.

 

[alex_c]

american bulldog shouldnt be in there either because they are a working dog bred to catch pigs,cattle etc.

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

to whiteyluvsrum - you stated in your list of dogs bred for fighting, the english mastiff. this breed was actually originally bred by gamekeepers for personal protection. This was in the days when the death penalty applied to poachers when caughy. With so much at stake, gamekeepers lives were at risk because poachers would rather 'do away; with the threat of being caught and ultimately executed. Therefore, the gamekeepers developed a dog with strong haunches that would think nothing of bringing down a man and holding him till the gamekeeper could catch them up, ensuring the gamekeepers safety.

dipcdame- i didnt state anything, its called copy and paste. pulled straight from wikipedia like i said on my post. heres the link again- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_dog
and it said that the breeds listed were used for dog fighting at some stage of there history. didnt say they were breed origanally for fighting alone.
its probably true about gamekeeper stuff but here is another pull from wiki about the history of the english mastiff-


The Mastiff name probably evolved from the Anglo-Saxon word "masty", meaning "powerful". The Mastiff is descended from the ancient Alaunt and Molosser and is recognized as the oldest British breed. The Mastiff might have been brought to Britain in the 6th century BC. It was used in the blood sports of bear-baiting, bull-baiting, DOG FIGHTING, and lion-baiting. Throughout its long history, the Mastiff has contributed to the development of a number of dog breeds.

When Sir Peers Legh was wounded in the Battle of Agincourt, his Mastiff stood over and protected him for many hours through the battle. Although Legh later died, the Mastiff returned to Legh's home and was the foundation of the Lyme Hall Mastiffs. Five centuries later this pedigree figured prominently in founding the modern breed.[3]

Some evidence exists that the Mastiff came to America on the Mayflower but the breed's documented entry to America did not occur until the late 1800s.

In 1835, the Parliament of the United Kingdom implemented an Act called the Cruelty to Animals Act 1835, which prohibited the baiting of animals. Subsequently, the Mastiff lost popularity and was virtually decimated in England by the Second World War; however, sufficient numbers had been brought to America by that time to keep the breed going. Since that time, it has gradually been restored in Britain.

heres the link for that too-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Mastiff

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

american bulldog shouldnt be in there either because they are a working dog bred to catch pigs,cattle etc.

same answer again alex, the list is from wiki and it lists the dogs that were used to fight at some stage of there history. dosnt say they were breed for soley fighting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_dog

 

[Dipcdame]

taken from mastiffweb.com


In the fifteenth century a large part of the English population were desperately poor. Many people starved to death while the upper class (and the royalty) were enjoying a life in luxury. The common way to keep this system intact, was to have incredibly unfair tax-laws, and to take advantage of political and religious power. There was so little food for the common man, that the only way to survive was to hunt for animals. The upper classes also were the owners of the most important forest areas, and it was illegal to hunt there. Some landowners had their own popular rich-man's hobby. They raised or caught deer and other desirable animals to hunt, and let them lose in the forest. A few days later they would trace them, and kill them, just for the "fun" of it. With all these animals running around in the forests, the temptation became too big for some of the poor. Illegal hunting often was a problem for the landowners, a problem they really wanted to solve, no matter what. So they used mastiffs! The mastiffs were trained to scare hungry hunters off the landowner's property. A new law was also written in those days. The mastiff was the only dog that was allowed to be inside the properties of the landowners. These dogs were then, as now, someone you wouldn't like to have as your enemy. In addition to this, the mastiff was used as a hunting dog for bigger animals during the middle ages.

As the modern interest for dogs awoke in the first part of the 20th century, only a very small number of mastiffs still existed. A few people in England decided to try as hard as they could to save the breed from disappearing for good. They started rebuilding the mastiff by mixing blood from shorthaired St. Bernhards. This was necessary to produce enough healthy puppies. This gave some good results. Right before the second world war, the breed wasn't that rare any longer. Dog shows with high quality mastiffs was not unusual. It looked like the crisis was over. Then the war started, a disaster for dogs, especially the big ones. They simply ate too much in a time when food was a luxury...

After the second world war the mastiff was almost gone again. In October 1946 fifteen enthusiastic mastiff-lovers gathered for the first time since 1939. The meeting took place in London, and was the beginning of an almost hopeless mission; to save the English mastiff from extinction. They promised each other to do all in their might to prevent this from happening. Their first task was tracing all living mastiffs in the country, and if possible making sure that puppies were born. This didn't give the requested results, basically because most of the twenty dogs that still were alive were too old to reproduce themselves. A male called Tarsus became the father of three litters with 18 puppies, but only one (!) of these survived. At the end of 1947 only seven dogs were still alive in England. This situation led to a visit to the USA in order to cooperate with the Americans. It turned out that the breed was so rare and of such poor quality in the US as well, that no dogs were brought back to England. In 1948 two promising puppies from District of Columbia (USA) were sent to England, and these two individuals created the foundation that prevented the breed from disappearing. In 1949 there were 15 mastiffs in the country, and in 1950 the number was approximately 50. The mastiff was saved! To achieve this one had to make use of other breeds with familiar outlook, background and history: Great Dane, Bullmastiff and St. Bernhard. These breeds were the most natural to use, since they are reckoned to be close relatives to the mastiff.

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

thats was a great read and i believe it all, but the pull from wiki dated back to the 6th century BC. your pull only starts from the 15 century. there is a good 900 years in between these. so what im trying to say is we are both correct. the english mastiff was used for dog fighting sometime after the 6th century in britain. so there for the english mastiff was used for dog fighting at some stage of there history. hence why they are listed down. you haven't presented anything that would be otherwise.

 

[ishka]

same answer again alex, the list is from wiki and it lists the dogs that were used to fight at some stage of there history. dosnt say they were breed for soley fighting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_dog

I know that list came from wiki but it seems to me to be a pretty pointless list (not picking on you whitey, but on the person who posted it on wiki) i think we would probably find that every breed has been used by some idiot at some stage to see if they were any good at fighting so i imagine every breed should be on that list, i'm guessing that it is just that some breeds have been fought with more success than others

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

I know that list came from wiki but it seems to me to be a pretty pointless list (not picking on you whitey, but on the person who posted it on wiki) i think we would probably find that every breed has been used by some idiot at some stage to see if they were any good at fighting so i imagine every breed should be on that list, i'm guessing that it is just that some breeds have been fought with more success than others

i think the list is accurate, there are alot of other dog breeds that wouldn't be suitable at all for fighting and if they were to be used at fighting it would more likley be a suicide for em and the other more suitable fighting dog would have no worries ending em quickly.
but there probably is a few other breeds that arn't listed that people have razed up to blue something. but they wouldn't have been any good at fighting because they are not known fighting dogs.

 

[smeejason]

I dont know why I bother even entering this thread, but I will put my 2 cents in anyway. Before I get jumped on for being pro-fighting, I am not, I just understand where they come from. I may sound somewhat for the practice of fighting dogs, but I am just trying to put some information across.

Amazonian, Im with you most of the way, I have owned propper Pitty's, not the big pretty red-noses and such you see around, but a propper game bred pitty, and have had a fair bit to do with them, and can tell you that they are only called "American Pit Bull Terriers" because that is the place that first registered them as a breed. The linage of the Pitbull is deeply seeded in the UK, although the yanks are largely responsible for the larger frame we associate with the breed today, they were originally a much smaller dog.

Anyone who believes that Pittys were bred for pigging or bull-baiting are slightly confused. The pit-bull is a purpose built fighting dog, it may have been partially derived from bull-baiters, but a few breeds were added to the mix at that point, to align stamina and build to the lock-jaw of the baiters. Most dont realise that the staffy is nothing more than a domestic quality pitty... and that the Amstaff was just a re-build of a pitty ( not a perfect re-build, as the Irish white terrier had become extinct by that point in time, and is proven via the throwback of rottie colours in some pups which are supposed to be euthanased.... the rottie plays no part in the pit-bulls make-up), both of these breeds are supposed to be safe when it comes to the BSL in regards to pittys. I could keep going....

Fighting dogs like was shown in the show is nothing more than barbaric. There is actually a set of rules to fighting dogs, that seems to have been thrown by the wayside at some point. A real dogman, be it fighting dogs, or hunting dogs, loves their animals, in some cases more than their own child, and would not risk the life of their dogs unnecessarily, but it seems the hillbillys have taken over the game, and the animals suffer for the humans neglect. I could go on and on about the rules, why do you think the pit walls are only 3ft ? so they can bail if not up for it.... if a dog turns 3 times, it is also automatic disqualification, as it is a sign of lack of game..... owners can pull a dog that isnt up for the match at any time..... the list goes on. It seems that the real dogmen have gone the way of the dodo though.

I have never rolled a dog i have owned, although I have bought from good stock, and pups that had won kennel scraps before weaning ( not pitted but normal highrachy stuff ). My Pittys were the most loyal dogs i have ever known, good with kids, good with people, and if another dog was in the frame he would just walk up, lean forward, sniff, turn their heads to show their lack of fear.... if the other dog didnt take the opportunity or show agression then it all disolved and they were sweet.

I dont usually post this long, but I have no time for the ignorant. Anyone who hunts with dogs will tell you, a pitty has no place on a pig, they let go and try to fight them, not a good thing when you face up to a set of hooks, bacon doesnt discriminate. Fighting dogs are fighting dogs, and there is no breed in the world that has had as much effort put into kurbing man biting as the pit-bull has. BSL is crap, when i know that the pitty is almost gone here, I promise I will get good lines, and keep them going. All the anti-pitty posse, do your homework, and do some research into temprement testing, and post the list for us.... lets see how your safe labrador scratches up againts a pitty.

Herpies.

thank god someone that knows what is going on stated some facts. Have always had game bred dogs and all that own pitties staffies or am staffs owe there temperement to the men and women that game bred them. not my cup of tea at all and i never did or would fight my dogs but a dog that wants and is bred to fight other dogs will never see a person as a threat.. mark my word i have seen the decline in staffordshire temprement since the old guard has past on and the breed now lets curs breed and they will start to bite people more and more.

 

[jessb]

All the anti-pitty posse, do your homework, and do some research into temprement testing, and post the list for us.... lets see how your safe labrador scratches up againts a pitty.

Herpies.

Herps, If you want to leave your kids alone in a room with a pitbull that's up to you, but I'm going to stick with our gorgeous Lab who has never growled, only ever barked at possums and bandicoots and has had our daughter crawling over her since she was a baby.

They are now both 3 (daughter) and 3 1/2 (Lab) and are inseparable. I don't hesitate leaving them alone together and have never had a moment's concern.

It's worth keeping in mind that one of the major issues with pitbulls is not only that they may or may not be more likely to attack - but with their strong jaws, they are capable of FAR more damage in a short time than many other breeds...

 

[waruikazi]

Herps, If you want to leave your kids alone in a room with a pitbull that's up to you, but I'm going to stick with our gorgeous Lab who has never growled, only ever barked at possums and bandicoots and has had our daughter crawling over her since she was a baby.

They are now both 3 (daughter) and 3 1/2 (Lab) and are inseparable. I don't hesitate leaving them alone together and have never had a moment's concern.

It's worth keeping in mind that one of the major issues with pitbulls is not only that they may or may not be more likely to attack - but with their strong jaws, they are capable of FAR more damage in a short time than many other breeds...

Labs have killed before...

 

[jessb]

Labs have killed before...

Yeah - I don't think anyone is denying that there can be a few loonies - but as they are the most popular pet breed in almost every country, the attacks don't even rate statistically.

 

[ihaveherps]

They are now both 3 (daughter) and 3 1/2 (Lab) and are inseparable. I don't hesitate leaving them alone together and have never had a moment's concern.

Ah, and then comes the golden sentence.... If you are fool enough to trust any dog implicitly, then thats at your own folly. Of course, every time you see the media slug a pitty attack, they always say "It was a vicious man killing machine, it displayed agression at every opportunity, and my child shouldnt have been anywhere near it" give me a break. Half the attacks blamed on the breed arent even pittys.

All your labrador rhetoric has zero basis in fact. As far as being the most popular pet breed in almost every country, I beg to differ. There would be more pittys in Blacktown alone, than Labradors in the entire country. In the US, somewhere in the order of 2 - 4 milloin pittys are destroyed each yr, most of them for the reason of being alive. How about you open your other eye and research some facts before dribbling in this thread, your one-eyed opinion (not fact) is wearing thin.

Did you know that even miniature horses have a higher pass rate through temperament testing than Labradors, even when applied to assisting the visually impared? Heres one for you, go check how a pitty went in the tests. Bigots like you have sent a breed underground where it has festered and become what it is today. If the stimga wasnt there, these dogs may have been in alot better hands.

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

the 2nd table on this site has stastickly ranked the lab up there.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf