hybrids

[JasonL]

$$$ the root of all evil

Yep... the dirty dollar creates hybrids, not septic tanks

 

[tonesanlainie]

This is always a topic that gets attention and gives rise to strong opinions. I am someone of limited experience and knowledge and so from my view point if I were to breed a natural line how would I do it? I believe I would have to ensure both parents actually came from a specific location, and were typical of that species that had evolved from that location. Now buying from captive bred stock what evidence can be provided that I can buy a natural line? My questions are largely retorical as I am trying to make the point that in many respects origin is opinion based. DNA (from what I am told) would not necessarily identify species location so therefore any breeding would be "best guess" (unless physically collected) and so deviation from a "natural" line would occur. To be honest I don't know what a natural line is other than my best guess! As there is also am amount of natural variation this would also colour the waters of best guess as well.

From what I see it is largely about natural variation as opposed to deliberate variation. I understand there can be some health issues from deliberate crossing, and so too can there be from natural variation (for example albinism and effects on thermal conductance/camouflage etc), not to mention breeding back to parents and its effects on the gene pool.

At the end of the day anything I see is best guess and if I want to see what is in the wild, then in the wild I go. Natuaral behavior is limited in an enclosure, as too is breeding. Perhaps a system of "certified lines would be needed to verify or give evidence of best guess. I am not saying this is practical, but maybe better than what we have now.

Cheers

 

[cosmicwolf4]

These rediculous generalisations and accusations about people and things(ie:all americans are hybrid lovers/breeders) that most of you know absolutely nothing about are plain childish and very offensive to some.To the point that many americans who are antihybrid will not even participate in this forum any longer.There is nothing wrong with having your own opinion,especially when it is an educated opinion.Yes many here in the states create hybrids,but just as many or more do not.You simply see many of them because like anything else unique,they receive more attention and press.What makes it most frustrating,is that many of you have decided all americans are hybridisers based solely on that you have read it on the internet enough times!
I am an american.I do not breed or keep hybrids/crosses.In the eyes of many here,that would make me an anomaly,wich is not even close to reality.
And to the poster who lived in Canada and supposedly observed it firsthand?Last I checked Canada is part of North America,but no part of the USA.Most of the hybrid examples you gave(liger,etc.)did not originate in America.
There is nothing wrong with being a purist and stating it proudly.Just stop stating as fact that it's all the americans fault.If an Australian keeper breeds hybrids,do you truly believe he'd never have done so if those d@mned Americans had'nt?
In the end we all share a passion for these animals and it is a shame we can not even discuss anything without pointing fingers and placing blame.
All the best,
Jamey

Jamey, had you read my post correctly, you would have seen that I did NOT say that hybrid types named had originated there, but they sure as hell keep them going. I do know where they originated. I also visited many places in the USA during my time in Canada and saw the roadside zoos, the circuses etc.
I also did NOT place all Americans in the same basket as I have American friends. I do know that they are by no means all the same. I realise that it is the minority who cause the problems. The major problem is that the minority who are doing the hybridization do NOT show the birth defects, mental problems and retardisation that come throuygh after breeding sibling to sibling andf parent to offspring in many, many cases. People who don't have a great deal of understanding see only the healthy and perfectly formed specimens that are put on show.
I am not pointing fingers at an entire country as you choose to assume, instead I point the finger at the unscrupulous breeders who keep breeding at any cost. It would be the same if it was happening here to the same extent.
I don't have an issue with true and proper breeding programs that have an open and honest approach, I do have a problem with animals dying to 'improve' the hybridization that goes against the natural order of species breeding.
I meant no offence to anyone and apologise if it was taken as such.

 

[Serpentes]

Before you jump up and down about hybrids, you need to ask yourself "what is a hybrid?"....who is right? you are of course

Firstly, thankyou, I am always right, except for the time I thought I'd made a mistake.

Secondly, what if I breed two snakes that are later found to be distinct species? I guess they would automatically become hybrids, and the converse true if two species were lumped into one. It's a tricky old world, but especially for those who 1. breed hybrids and 2. stroke their ego with snakes (inseparable).

Mmmmmm, stroked ego.

 

[pyrodarknessanny]

i cant believe this is STILL going, you do know more than half of these comments will be eventually removed and this thread closed right? and it looks like its starting to go down hill now, so ill just jump off the bad wagon at this point and watch from a safe distance.

oh by the way someone may have sabotaged the breaks

 

[JasonL]

Firstly, thankyou, I am always right, except for the time I thought I'd made a mistake.

Secondly, what if I breed two snakes that are later found to be distinct species? I guess they would automatically become hybrids, and the converse true if two species were lumped into one. It's a tricky old world, but especially for those who 1. breed hybrids and 2. stroke their ego with snakes (inseparable).

Mmmmmm, stroked ego.

You only should breed snakes found within a 500 meter radius of each other, and they also have to be captive bred from captive bred ancestry as we can't condone poaching.... but don't inbreed them either, thats just wrong

 

[Serpentes]

Alternately we could just hybridise until we only have one mega-uber-super single hybrid snake type that can't breed. We should start a club now so that we can direct the predominant form that this single species should have. I reckon it should turn out kind of big, but not too big, and pretty, and a good feeder. But most of all, I want it to not poo. Ever. Can we do that yet?

 

[pythons73]

You only should breed snakes found within a 500 meter radius of each other, and they also have to be captive bred from captive bred ancestry as we can't condone poaching.... but don't inbreed them either, thats just wrong

Looks as thou no-one should be breeding then.Either way people are breeding them if we like it or not..But in no way do i condone it..but i will admit some look nice...MARK

 

[D3pro]

Do hybrids come naturally in the wild? Like, if there was a female coastal, and met up by a male python of another kind... will they make little hybrid abominations?

 

[NickM]

I cant believe I read this entire thread!!!

What a bunch of garbage! I would like to point out the obvious since nobody noticed in 5 pages:

THE FIRST PICTURE IN THIS THREAD IS NOT A HYBRID ITS AN ANGOLAN PYTHON!!!!! I dont know where the young person who started this thead got the idea it was a BredliXball python, its just a typical angolan python, not a hybrid at all.

I wouls also like to say that I am an AMERICAN and I am a FANATICAL purist. Nobody likes to be part of an ignorant stereotype so please think for minute before you post please.

I frequent this forum because I like to hear the Australian perpective on these snakes, and to look at all the great animals, but honestly the anti-ameican attitudes are getting tiresome.


Nick

 

[Dipcdame]

It is a fact that hybrids, once bred, are sterile. At least with the ligers, and the donkey zebra crosses etc, perhaps theres a message there from mother nature............. don't mess with stuff concerning her, she don't like it!

 

[krefft]

Our hobby is changing. Every one of us at some stage has tried to win over friends and family to the joys of keeping Reptiles. Well now it’s happening. Suddenly “non herp” people want to keep a pet snake. One that looks good, is easy to keep and feed, and won’t bite. In time, some of those people may become “Herps”. They may want to see these animals in their natural habitat, and keep ones that look more like the “real thing”, but perhaps they won’t.
They may want to create something stunning that’s never been seen before. Ultimately it will be the individual who decides what they prefer.
What’s wrong with wanting some locale specific animals and some which are crosses? We don’t need to be on one side or the other. Cat people can still keep dogs.
Whatever you decide good luck. However if someone has the opposite view, providing no laws are being broken it should be there choice.
The most important thing is that buyers know what they are getting, and people are honest about what they are selling.

 

[krefft]

You only should breed snakes found within a 500 meter radius of each other, and they also have to be captive bred from captive bred ancestry as we can't condone poaching.... but don't inbreed them either, thats just wrong

Jason, that was the best post of the year so far...

 

[JasonL]

I
but honestly the anti-ameican attitudes are getting tiresome.
Nick

I agree, anti-American is so yester-year.......... anti Indian is all the rage atm..

 

[JasonL]

Jason, that was the best post of the year so far...

I learnt that from all my years online..

 

[Serpentes]

Nobody likes to be part of an ignorant stereotype so please think for minute before you post please..... but honestly the anti-ameican attitudes are getting tiresome. Nick

Well said, Nick, but please be aware that some of your less intelligent countrymen have posted on this forum to assert their 1. superiority of hybrids and morphs and 2. status as, and I quote with a big cheesy grin "big American breeders"!

Racial stereotypes are silly of course, and it must suck to be included in one you dislike. Anyway, my kangaroo needs a feed and I have to polish my Akubra and Blunnies, then put fuel in the ute, eat a meat pie and buy beer: there's a bush dance on in the woolshed tonight!

 

[ntvnm]

kreft - The people that keep herps arnt called herps :lol: its either herpers or herp keepers.

 

[JasonL]

. Anyway, my kangaroo needs a feed and I have to polish my Akubra and Blunnies, then put fuel in the ute, eat a meat pie and buy beer: there's a bush dance on in the woolshed tonight!

I didn't realise you lived in the city?

 

[Serpentes]

Ya own a ute in the city and a 'cruiser in the bush, mate. 'Course I'm a city-slicker. No sheilas in the bush, or only rough ones. Where's me pie and me VB gone? "SHAZZA, WHERE'S ME BEER?"

 

[Contagion]

Ya own a ute in the city and a 'cruiser in the bush, mate. 'Course I'm a city-slicker. No sheilas in the bush, or only rough ones. Where's me pie and me VB gone? "SHAZZA, WHERE'S ME BEER?"

I'll take offence to that! anyone who drinks VB should be shot. Otherwise, no problem.

LMAO, angolan python... nice.