A Cross breeding survey

[NCHERPS]

It would seem that although there has been a number of people breeding cross breeds over the years, either intentially or not.
Since the albino darwins arrival and acquirement by several people, it seems to me that this morph more than most will be crossed with lots of Carpets species, and it seems generally accepted, am I right?
Would this be because most of the offspring would be obvious to the prospective buyers and command good money?
So, who would breed them now?(Not just Albino's, I mean any hybrids)And why?

My own thoughts is that there is a place in the hobby for crosses, but on the whole I prefer pure animals.
I believe that some of the crosses that have been produced are spectacular, some very ordinary.
Where it becomes an issue, and it has been mentioned many times on here, is when people are misrepresenting the animals they are selling, either deliberately or not. 'Browns' has said that he will be true in his representations of future offspring, of that I have no doubt, but his adult animal has fooled many into thinking it was pure Jungle, how many have been fooled in the past??

 

[africancichlidau]

I voted #3 because I just think it going against what nature intended and who are we to play God? I am not of the belief that it should be done even if you are honest when you sell the offspring as the person buying them may not be as honest when onselling the animal/s. This is purely my personal opinion, which I don't think will ever change, but I know there are many people out there that will disagree with me. I also believe that it going to be inevitable that it becomes more widespread in the future.

 

[westhamsc]

i whould never keep or breed a hybrid and i agree with afro in that the person that buys the animal will not always sell it as a hybrid this has happend a couple of times when i have gone to buy a snake and only to get there and find out its a cross between something

 

[basketcase]

if there was a cross that took my fancy i'd keep it, maybe even breed it if i thought the results would justify breeding.

the only hybrid i've seen first hand that looked decent was a 75% jungle, 25% diamond. it was really an "enhanced" jungle (lots of nice flecking) more than anything else. i feel there's a place for these animals that improve upon species rather than create something completely new.

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

I wonder if you will be able to detect genetic crosses in carpet pythons as the albino gene would be hidden when crossed to others. Basic laws of genetics. Albinism, would only come out in the second generation. This means you could cross an albino with acoastal and all the babies would look coastal even though it was hybrid. Then cross with het and you would have albinos diasplaying coastal characteristics. Then you would have people that own albinos who would sell normal darwins as hets to make some money after bying up a whole clutch of normal darwins. this is going to be the major downfall of the morph evolution in Australia. Too many people wanting to make a buck. My opinion of course.

 

[Guest]

Yes I would keep and breed crosses but they would have to be something special.

 

[Wrasse]

There was a case a while ago, where a cross bred clutch was up for sale. The seller was up front about the snakes and was selling them as such. Public scorn sent him and his clutch underground, only to resurface months later as 'Coastals'.

Now I am sorry, but I don't blame him for this, he was driven to do it by the attitudes of others. Where he was prepared to be honest and sell them as they were, crosses, now he is not game to do so due to aggressive attitudes.

I am not pro crossbreds, never have been in any species, keep them pure, there will be enough accidents to muddy the waters without making deliberate choices to do so.

But my argument is, how can we say it is not 'normal'? That nature made it at all possible would indicate to me it *is* normal. Would these same people argue that an Asian European marriage and offspring is not normal?

Hrmm, isn't there a name for this perception?

 

[Stevo]

I had no choice but to select option one. I keep cape york carpets and hope to one day breed them. I wouldn't however buy a woma cross jungle or bredli cross diamond so figure that out.

On a side note it will be interesting to see what happens with the amount of crosses in sydney if they allow pet shops to sell snakes. I believe this is why victoria has always had so many crosses because even if bred by accident it gives people an easy option of disposing of offspring. For years now petshops down here have sold alot of crosses , sometimes advertised as such and sometimes as pures.
Cheers Stevo

 

[stencorp69]

I'm all for it - its good for biodiversity - you are going to get some ugly crosses but you'll get some good looking ones as well. The main thing for me is that they don't get released into the wild, as a consideration to others who like think they can maintain a pure environment

 

[NCHERPS]

I had no choice but to select option one. I keep cape york carpets and hope to one day breed them. I wouldn't however buy a woma cross jungle or bredli cross diamond so figure that out.

Cheers Stevo

Stevo, I wasn't aware that 'Cape York' carpets are cross breeds, as far as I was aware they are pure McDowelli, well as pure as the breeder makes them anyway :wink: .
Interested to know if anyone knows any different??

 

[stiffler]

Before the cross breeding on species I still think there is morphs that can be created using the wild species we have. I am sure that with the amount of variation that there is in coastals people could be creating snakes similar to the jaguars in the US. These were bred using pure coastals with their limited gene pools. There is also so much that can be done with Jungles still.
There are things such as the bumble bee BHP going on, again with out need for crossing.
I mean a pure high yellow Diamond looks so much better than a hybrid from coffs harbour.
I think crossing will be the lazy way out for the not so good breeders.

 

[basketcase]

Interested to know if anyone knows any different??

(my bad) they're atherton jungles crossed with mcdowelli neil. b4 browns mentioned it in a hyvrid debate a while back, i had no idea either. this is what i mean about a species that has been improved upon. it looks pretty much natural but you get differnt colour.

 

[stiffler]

I had no choice but to select option one. I keep cape york carpets and hope to one day breed them. I wouldn't however buy a woma cross jungle or bredli cross diamond so figure that out.

Cheers Stevo

Stevo, I wasn't aware that 'Cape York' carpets are cross breeds, as far as I was aware they are pure McDowelli, well as pure as the breeder makes them anyway :wink: .
Interested to know if anyone knows any different??

From what I have been told there was only one wc cape york and it was then crossed with jungles. Thats where most of them come from.

 

[stiffler]

Heres some pics of what the OS breeders have done with just coastals.
http://www.reptilicusreptiles.net/htm2/pythons_tiger.htm
http://www.reptilicusreptiles.net/htm2/pythons_jaguar.htm

Now I can't be 100% certain they are 100% coastals but as they don't have a problem with crossing and designer snakes I see no reason for them to say any different.

 

[NCHERPS]

Interested to know if anyone knows any different??

they're variegata crossed with mcdowelli neil. b4 browns mentioned it in a hyvrid debate a while back, i had no idea either. this is what i mean about a species that has been improved upon. it looks pretty much natural but you get differnt colour.

Thanks Basket.
So, The 'Cape york' carpet is a man made cross between a Cheynei and a McDowelli?
Can this be varified in any text or papers, I was certain they were full 'McDowelli' and need to know more now.

So, really, they shouldn't be labled as 'Cape york' if that is the case, as there is no real connection between the two. Why were they labled as 'Cape York' carpets if this is the case?

Anyone add anymore to this?

Neil

 

[NCHERPS]

These were bred using pure coastals with their limited gene pools.

I think this is why they sometimes produce some oddball's/freaks and stunners, because they don't have the gene pool we have.

When you think about it, animals will always try to breed to unrelated animals, but when you have a smaller gene pool, sometimes it will happen, this happens in the wild in isolated area's, it also happens in captivity in many animals, rodents probably more than most, but reptiles to.
The more line breeding(Sometimes crossing siblings, sometimes siblings back to parents) the better chance you have of creating a genetic freak, wether this be a striped animal, albino, whatever else...

Neil

 

[basketcase]

dont quote me on the exact species, but i know cape york's are hybrids.

browns, care to enlighten us?

 

[Stevo]

Yeah they are really nice carpets I love em

(was refering to neils question anything else to add to capes)

 

[Guest]

Heres some pics of what the OS breeders have done with just coastals.
http://www.reptilicusreptiles.net/htm2/pythons_tiger.htm
http://www.reptilicusreptiles.net/htm2/pythons_jaguar.htm

Now I can't be 100% certain they are 100% coastals but as they don't have a problem with crossing and designer snakes I see no reason for them to say any different.

I have to say these are just beautiful (to the eye anyway) as to the right and wrong of it I think that must be an individual desion but it could make licencing difficult if you cross an advanced with a basic. Well I see problems in victoria anyway.

 

[Guest]

As homer said, "the all ighty ollar???"

(the all mighty dollar)