Carpet pythons - what's in the name?

[Waterrat]

I posted this question in another thread but no one responded. Lets try it here.


Can someone please tell me what species is a Cape York carpet and how does it differ from Coastal carpet, Mareeba carpet and Jungle carpet? I mean taxonomically, not what they look like or where they live.

thanks
M

I think I got it.

Coastal carpet is M. s. mcdowelli
Cape York carpet is M. s. mcdowelli
Mareeba carpet is M. s. mcdowelli
Jungle carpet is M. s. cheynei

Would I be wrong to conclude that so called Cape York and Mareeba carpets are bull*******t? I mean taxonomically. Aren't they just variants of coastal carpets - how consistent (morphologically) are they? Jungles are probably variants too, just more adapted to their preferred habitat.

It puzzles me because I see carpets around Cairns that aren't clear cut jungles nor coastals.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

M

 

[shell477]

I have a Mareeba, and I thought he was a coastal, but the person I bought him from said he is a jungle. He has markings that could be either. I find it highly confusing too.

 

[Albino93]

i thougt that the mareeba was a jungle in that locality, at least thats what ive heard not really 100% sure tho.

 

[Waterrat]

i thougt that the mareeba was a jungle in that locality, at least thats what ive heard not really 100% sure tho.

If "jungle carpet" is jungle because it lives in a jungle than Mareeba carpet can't be a jungle. LOL, it sound funny but that's how it is. The nearest rainforest (jungle) is at Kuranda or Lamb Range. Mareeba and surrounds is a dust bowl.

 

[Albino93]

i have no idea lol im confused as to what both of em actually are.if mareeba is a dust bowl then id say there just coastal varients but who knows.

 

[Chanzey]

Common names.. you get that

 

[turtle]

I have Cape Yorks that are Archer River locality. I know this as they were wild caught by a good friend with permission. They don't look like any coastal I've seen and nothing like a Jungle. More like a darwin with more vivid markings if that makes sense.

Dan

 

[Waterrat]

I have Cape Yorks that are Archer River locality. I know this as they were wild caught by a good friend with permission. They don't look like any coastal I've seen and nothing like a Jungle. More like a darwin with more vivid markings if that makes sense.

Dan

That makes sense, Archer River flows through very dry country. I bet you if you go 100km north or south, the carpets will be slightly different again, still coastals though, or I better say M. s. mcdowelli.

 

[turtle]

Thanks Michael, I know they are just a variant of carpet but always wondered why they are so different to the Cape Trib Carpets. Do you know how far Cape Trib is from Archer River?

Dan

 

[DanN]

Hi Michael,

As you know carpets display huge variation in many attributes even among individuals within a population. However, is your question about any taxonomic basis to such variation?

Many folk suggest that Cape York carpets are distinct, just as others say jungles are different. Sure jungles appear very different (funky patterns, small size, etc), but the variation has no basis taxonomically.

Genetic data indicate that “M. s. mcdowelli” and “M. s. cheynei” are almost identical. However, this is when they occur in sympatry. There is an area in the wet tropics called the black mountain corridor, and species inhabiting seemingly identical habitats either side of the corridor (including carpets) exhibit quite a bit of genetic variation.

Carpets north of the black mountain corridor (Cooktown to the tip) are all pretty much one animal (although they still display the typical variation we all know).

I am sure that further work will indicate that “Darwins” and “Cape Yorks” are very closely related. New Guinea carpets are almost identical (genetically) to carpets from Cape York, and both resemble Darwins more so than southern "M.s. mcdowelli", for example.

One interesting point is that unlike in the wet tropics, carpets do not inhabit rainforest in Cape York or New Guinea. This is corroborated by findings that carpets from the Atherton Tableland that typically resembled both “cheynei” and “mcdowelli” were found to not differ in habitat use or ecological attributes.

“Freeman, A.B. and C. Bruce. 2007. The things you find on the road: Roadkill and incidental data as an
indicator of habitat use in two species of tropical pythons. Pp. 152–165 In Biology of the Boas and
Pythons. Henderson, R.W., and R. Powell. (Eds.). Eagle Mountain Publishing, Utah, USA.”

So to answer your question… Yep, they’re all the same thing.…. IMO of course. ☺

 

[Waterrat]

Dan, I agree with you all the way, it would make much more sense if the hobby fraternity (since scientific names are not in vogue) would use the word "type". For example, the carpets from Julatten are "famous" for being black and white despite the fact that many are very muddy brown, etc.. "Julatten type" would better describe the form generally refer to in the hobby.

I am still puzzled why people recognise "Mareeba carpet" as some kind of separate entity, how does it differ from the rest? Peter Krauss lives in Mareeba and we had many discussions about this mysterious beast .......

 

[DanN]

The reason is because human beings in general value rarity. It is an effective marketing tool to describe your carpet python as being from a unknown locality - if you do that you can justify the $100 extra you charge for that animal.

We've all seen it. When I first starting getting into herps black-headed pythons were black-headed pythons. Now they're granite, mite phase, 50% het cucumber black-headed pythons - and guess what, they sell for more!

It happens all around the world. Newly described species have become extirpated almost immediately after their description to science because they are a "unique island form" or equivalent.

In Australia we are lucky, but in countries where reptiles are still taken from the wild, perceived "rarity" can have a massive impact on the survival of wild populations.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

I think the same could apply to what some people call the Atherton(jungle) Carpet Python.
I have been told that they are all the same but just different locals & different local names.

Cheers
Ian

 

[DanN]

Your dead right Ian. Without trying to sound too cynical... this occurs with most of the reptiles (and indeed animals in general) traded for pet collections.

 

[Norm]

I have Cape Yorks that are Archer River locality. I know this as they were wild caught by a good friend with permission. They don't look like any coastal I've seen and nothing like a Jungle. More like a darwin with more vivid markings if that makes sense.

Dan

This makes perfect sense to me because i have a cape York that sounds very similar. Darwin colours but more jungle/coastal pattern. I don't know it's exact locale but would like to find out.


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[junglepython2]

Mareeba is merely used as a locale, I don't think anyone who knows what they are talking about try to make out any different. No different to a coastal from Brisbane being called a Brisbane carpet python.

 

[Ramsayi]

I have some wenlocks here that are on the books as jungles.To me though they are coastals.

 

[Waterrat]

Mareeba is merely used as a locale, I don't think anyone who knows what they are talking about try to make out any different. No different to a coastal from Brisbane being called a Brisbane carpet python.

I go with that. Just wonder how many carpets were ever taken from Mareeba into captivity. They are not particularly pretty but the name has got a ring to it. LOL

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

Mareeba is merely used as a locale, I don't think anyone who knows what they are talking about try to make out any different. No different to a coastal from Brisbane being called a Brisbane carpet python.

Yah this is quite right, but to the unsuspecting buyer who might buy it & think that they have a Mareeba jungle python or Brisbane Coastal Carpet or a Cape York Jungle python & have a pair of them then they are away merily breeding Cape York jungle Pythons or Brisbane Coastals. I have Emerald Jungles.

Cheers
Ian

 

[scorps]

I totally agree with you Micheal in fact I was going to make a thread on the same subject.

I think it's harder for people that haven't seen much of the land up here to understand how totally different in can be in less then 20kms.

There are also a lot of carpets that would be very hard to differentiate between coastal or jungle.

A coastal and jungle would readily breed in captivity which means that I'm sure they would breed in the wild as I've found several of both types of pythons along the same roads at night.