Get off you're high horse Australia!

[waruikazi]

yes thay have 2 people both died in the same week at the venoms reaserch facility last year in august i believe both people died in under half hour (anafalaxis). i found out when i called up to apply for volunter work there.

I don't think that is the case mate. Unless you can find a reference for this claim? I think there was a death due to complications that stemmed from a fierce bite but that was years after the incident.

 

[shane14]

hahahaha thats weird

 

[Hooglabah]

i'll see if i can get an official report or statement from the lab ( i still volunteer there from time to time)

 

[m.punja]

very good nice read

 

[slacker]

aspidites: "I am personally of the opinion that there is too many variables to make a claim to most deadly snake."

That is precisely what Jamie Seymour looked at - all the factors and not only with Australian snakes, also exotics, spiders and jellyfish. Interestingly, he identified one of thew small African vipers (I think Saw-scaled viper) as the most dangerous snake in the world.

Sounds on face value to be a much better test

The point he is making is that the LD50 'potency' test can't be reliably related to humans. Take the example of the olive whip snake he made. That made it i think in the top 20, that's higher than a collettes, pale headed snake, copper head etc but there is little chance that an olive whip will kill a person.

http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/ld50sc.html

Olive whip snake 714.2mg/kg. Lowland copperhead 0.5mg/kg

 

[waruikazi]

i'll see if i can get an official report or statement from the lab ( i still volunteer there from time to time)

I remember the bites and they were serious enough for intensive care in both cases. If they were killed, which i really hope they weren't, it would be right over the media. Googling it i can't even find an article that has made reference to it.

 

[waruikazi]

Sounds on face value to be a much better test



http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/ld50sc.html

Olive whip snake 714.2mg/kg. Lowland copperhead 0.5mg/kg

Looking at the LD50 i was wrong on all three, my mistake.

 

[waruikazi]

Would that be becouse it's injected and a lot more venom is inserted

Seriously, can you slow it down and explain what you are talking about. You don't make any sense.

 

[waruikazi]

As if we want these venomous reptiles. .. are you a scientist in this field or what? .. i dont see you offering to be a 'guinea pig' to test the venom for scientific research ... any fool would know the reason less people die from these bites nowadays, is the anivenine available and also an awareness to these creatures.... either on land or in the water.... quick witted first aid application is another reason ... just because you dont always hear of people dying from bites etc doesnt prove that there are not any here ... why is it you dont see people happily splashing about in the pristine waters of the north? .. only another idiot would not know that ... certain parts of the whitsundays is known as Taipan alley .(gee, i wonder why) .. but as you the ever know all in these matters would say... 'so what' .. if you cared to count the amount of animals (you know, those four legged pets - cats, dogs, horses, cows etc) that are killed by these reptiles every year or even month ... you might change your mind ... but hey, thats not a snake bite, an ant bit them and they died ... wake up stupid .. you are most welcome to trek through the bush or swim in the waters up north any time you want ... i have had red bellied blacks at my back door on quite a few occassions ... this is not a contest idiot ... this is what God put on the earth and where .. we just happen to have been handed out five of the most venomous creatures on the planet ... snakes, cone fish, wasps, spiders, stone fish, various forms of jelly fish ... care to come and try these out for size ?... just as we all thought, big mouth and no brain .. why do we need scientists when we have you ? ....

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Thanks for coming to the party, i really enjoyed your post! :lol:

I'm actually an Aussie snake catcher living in the one of the snake capitals of the world (the NT). Cone shells are the only thing on your list that i haven't had first hand experience with, but that's besides the point.

Now to your comment about changing my mind. I don't need to change my mind because i keep an open mind, i do my best to look at all information available to me in an objective manner. When new information comes to light i don't dismiss it just because i don't like what it tells me.

As for the rest of your post i don't really understand it, so until you clarify i wont make comment except to refer you to a previous comment of mine that i have quoted below.

Aussies hate being second at anything, especially at the most dangerous stuff.

Yours sincerely
Self Appointed Herpetologist
Gordon

 

[craftsman]

Wow! Sheela, the venom oozes out of you - you must be the deadliest creature on Earth. I am not sure why are you bringing God into this, was he a snake handler or a herpetologist?

 

[bundy_zigg]

What?

No one has died from a fierce snake! Like i said, get off your high horse!

Aussies hate being second at anything, especially at the most dangerous stuff.

Why dont you get off your high horse!! dont patronize people!

Sri Lanka, though an island of relatively small size, is the richest country in herpetological wealth in South Asia. Her rich and diverse herpetofauna consists of approximately 100 amphibian and 190 reptile species. Of these two groups nearly 60% species are endemic. Of the reptiles, 96 species are snakes. In Sri Lanka the annual death rate due to snakebite envenoming is one of the highest in the world being 6 in 100,000 population. Important factors which contribute to this high incidence of snakebite morbidity and mortality are: the presence of representatives of all the known snake families which contain venomous species (Colubridae, Elapidae, Hydrophiidae and Viperidae), the favorable climates and habitats, the socio-economic condition of the people, the preference of some victims for seeking traditional treatment for snakebite instead of western management (antivenom), clearing and alterations to the natural vegetation and habitats by people for settlements, agriculture and plantations. When you think about the fact that loads of people dont seek proper medical advice that leads to death then you cant say they have the deadliest snakes just the stupidest people!!
I dont really care what is the most venomous snake! I love our snakes and dont like them being called PUSSYS!!

 

[waruikazi]

Wow! Sheela, the venom oozes out of you - you must be the deadliest creature on Earth. I am not sure why are you bringing God into this, was he a snake handler or a herpetologist?

No but his worst enemy manifested himself as a snake.

Now now i know i'm guilty of this too but lets play nice children.

 

[bundy_zigg]

I would be happy for our snakes to be taken of the deadliest list!, all the back packers I work with all say how the only thing they hate is our snakes - so maybe if it was said that our snakes in fact arnt that bad we wouldnt have them all saying Australia is a deadly place more tourism

 

[Retic]

When you are fictitious you can be whatever takes your fancy.

 

[waruikazi]

Why dont you get off your high horse!! dont patronize people!

Sri Lanka, though an island of relatively small size, is the richest country in herpetological wealth in South Asia. Her rich and diverse herpetofauna consists of approximately 100 amphibian and 190 reptile species. Of these two groups nearly 60% species are endemic. Of the reptiles, 96 species are snakes. In Sri Lanka the annual death rate due to snakebite envenoming is one of the highest in the world being 6 in 100,000 population. Important factors which contribute to this high incidence of snakebite morbidity and mortality are: the presence of representatives of all the known snake families which contain venomous species (Colubridae, Elapidae, Hydrophiidae and Viperidae), the favorable climates and habitats, the socio-economic condition of the people, the preference of some victims for seeking traditional treatment for snakebite instead of western management (antivenom), clearing and alterations to the natural vegetation and habitats by people for settlements, agriculture and plantations. When you think about the fact that loads of people dont seek proper medical advice that leads to death then you cant say they have the deadliest snakes just the stupidest people!!
I dont really care what is the most venomous snake! I love our snakes and dont like them being called PUSSYS!!

The fact that they kill the most people does make them the most deadly snake in the world, that can not be argued, lots of death = deadly, the most deaths = the most deadly.

There are lots of factors that contribute to snake bite deaths just like you have said, that is what this paper is getting at. This means that there are lots of factors that contribute to a snake being considered dangerous or not. Seriously which snake is more dangerous to you, the fierce snake that bit you in the Sydney Hospital or the collettes that bit you 5 hours from help?

The other point it is making is that the LD50 test of venom potency test how deadly the venom is to rodents. So if a snake, like a mulga that feeds on frogs and reptiles, is compared to a gwardar, which feeds on reptiles and mammals the results do not correlate and then to try and compare the affects to people... Although it is probably a good guideline the methodology is flawed because we aren't mice.

I'm quite happy on my high horse thank you. I've learned from Sdaji that I could try not patronizing people, but i get more responses this way. I like it like this better.

 

[slacker]

The fact that they kill the most people does make them the most deadly snake in the world, that can not be argued, lots of death = deadly, the most deaths = the most deadly.

There are lots of factors that contribute to snake bite deaths just like you have said, that is what this paper is getting at. This means that there are lots of factors that contribute to a snake being considered dangerous or not. Seriously which snake is more dangerous to you, the fierce snake that bit you in the Sydney Hospital or the collettes that bit you 5 hours from help?

Most deadly should reflect the potential, not just the actual number of recorded deaths. Saying a given snake is more deadly because the recipients of bites often don't (or can't) seek proper medical attention is very misleading. Sure, it has a higher tally, but is it really any more capable of delivering a deadly bite? That's the true question.

 

[waruikazi]

Most deadly should reflect the potential, not just the actual number of recorded deaths. Saying a given snake is more deadly because the recipients of bites often don't (or can't) seek proper medical attention is very misleading. Sure, it has a higher tally, but is it really any more capable of delivering a deadly bite? That's the true question.

I disagree. I think most deadly has to have a direct correlation with the most death. Dangerous is the word that should be used to describe the potential.

In the same scenario that you have given, for arguments sake, does a fierce snake have the capability of giving a lethal bite as a mulga? They are found in the middle of woop woop where there is incredibly little chance of them coming into contact with people. In this scenario which is the more dangerous/deadly?

 

[bundy_zigg]

I'm quite happy on my high horse thank you. I've learned from Sdaji that I could try not patronizing people, but i get more responses this way. I like it like this better.

Ahh all the more to fall , We in Australia are lucky to have such a good health care system. I think its got nothing to do with how many people they kill but what level their potency is! as far as im concerned and venomouse snake should be respected no matter how many deaths, as I would hate to become number one victim of a deathless snake

 

[craftsman]

"the deadliest snake" is the same as saying "the nastiest person" - very subjective.
We need to understand that 'venom potency', 'fangs size', 'the snake's disposition', 'abundance', 'geographical distribution', the victims 'physical condition' and probably a number of other factors may or may not play role in the "deadliness" of certain species.
A deadly snake is one that has the potential to kill a human. "Deadliest" is a meaningless expression (in this case) IMO

 

[waruikazi]

"the deadliest snake" is the same as saying "the nastiest person" - very subjective.
We need to understand that 'venom potency', 'fangs size', 'the snake's disposition', 'abundance', 'geographical distribution', the victims 'physical condition' and probably a number of other factors may or may not play role in the "deadliness" of certain species.
A deadly snake is one that has the potential to kill a human. "Deadliest" is a meaningless expression (in this case) IMO

Totally agree with that, but most deadly or deadliest is the one that has killed the most.