Hmmmmm...........not RIGHT!

[foxysnake]

Personally I think it became of a nescessity over there, as its been mentioned there is no importing of reptiles into the state - how else would they get a pet reptile industry up and running? Other than catch them from the wild? For people to say there's enough in captivity already IMO is just a comment of stupidity, the whole point over there is catch them from the wild so there will be enough in captivity to breed from, and if excess is sold to the southern states, so what? - At least some of us will be able to buy some gorgeous pure-blooded W.A. animals. It seems like consistantly the same group of whingers about certain topics such as this or the GTP topic just keep things like this going over and over.

 

[stencorp69]

To help bring understanding to this issue I'll raise a couple of points. 1. WA keepers are not allowed to import any Pythons and we can only import other reptiles that are native to the state (and on the CALM list). 2. NSW had a huge number of keepers who "illegally" took Wild Caught animals before they had an amnesty and then made keeping legal. In fact if it wasn't for the people breaking the law and keeping WC animals NSW keepers wouldn't be in the great position they are now. 3. Import Export between Eastern states give a much higher pool to breed, trade and spread stock around and given that VIC has allowed the keeping of reptiles for so long certainly reduces the need for WC animals needed for the pet trade. Additionally they are allowed to own animals not native to the local area which again spreads the opportunity for choice and livestock.

Sten

 

[krusty]

yeah!! Lets ban all eastern staters from own reptiles as well. They give me the (what he said) too, cause they get to own what ever they want. Yeah!!



Sten

hey sten,
well you could always move , so then you can keep what ever you want. lol :lol:

 

[instar]

It might be a good idea to put the brakes on collecting certain species until more is known about them, their numbers, breeding etc.

 

[ad]

So why dont you people get all upset with the NT Govt as well?
They have allowed wild collecting for years.

Is the main reason because Takers profit? Jealous maybe?
Or is it concern for the environment and snake populations? Ingnorance Possibly - you are totally speculating rather than knowing populations?
What other reason?

Unlike the NT - Wa will stop wild collecting once they believe captive populations will thrive.
Snakes NT and now Reedy Reptiles profit from w/c animals - they dont have the expense that WA collectors have - they just get them from relocations and sell them.
I havent heard one thread anti NT laws - Why?

 

[stencorp69]

well you could always move , so then you can keep what ever you want. lol

I'm definately considering moving back

 

[moosenoose]

Personally I think it became of a nescessity over there, as its been mentioned there is no importing of reptiles into the state - how else would they get a pet reptile industry up and running? Other than catch them from the wild? For people to say there's enough in captivity already IMO is just a comment of stupidity, the whole point over there is catch them from the wild so there will be enough in captivity to breed from, and if excess is sold to the southern states, so what? - At least some of us will be able to buy some gorgeous pure-blooded W.A. animals. It seems like consistantly the same group of whingers about certain topics such as this or the GTP topic just keep things like this going over and over.

That has to be the most hypocritical thing I?ve ever read coming from a person who supposedly cares for the wellbeing of these animals in the wild! On one hand everyone screams ?We?re thinking of the animals! We?re doing the right thing by buying captive bred and leaving the wild populations do their thing!!? But by hearing you comment like this, and justifying the legal plundering from the bush makes me really start to think twice about what your priorities are!

There is such a thing called an ecosystem, and by removing certain elements of it all the time, only achieves in unbalances the scales!

So why dont you people get all upset with the NT Govt as well?
They have allowed wild collecting for years.

Is the main reason because Takers profit? Jealous maybe?
Or is it concern for the environment and snake populations? Ingnorance Possibly - you are totally speculating rather than knowing populations?
What other reason?

Unlike the NT - Wa will stop wild collecting once they believe captive populations will thrive.
Snakes NT and now Reedy Reptiles profit from w/c animals - they dont have the expense that WA collectors have - they just get them from relocations and sell them.
I havent heard one thread anti NT laws - Why?

I don?t hear about the NT laws Ad, give me some time though and I?m sure I could have a nice big gripe It?s certainly got nothing to do with jealously either. I?d love to know what sort of controls are in place to prevent these ?takers? endangering the naturally conceived populations of certain species. You can?t sit there for a minute and tell me they are taking them for the well being of these animals, it?s got a hell of a lot to do with money, plain and simple. :?

 

[ad]

I?d love to know what sort of controls are in place to prevent these ?takers? endangering the naturally conceived populations of certain species.

Hi Moose,
If this is your main concern, Im sure the WA Govt have made the decision based on many a white coat's studies.
Yes money is made (earnt) by the takers, in a system devised by the Govt. to give WA herpers access to animals.
They saw that by capturing their states native animals and by taking enough to ensure the captive market will continue, they did not want to import possible disease from the East so banned importation.
This system will go on as long as the white coats believe their objective has been reached. Im sure they are monitoring quantities taken.
The govt had to offer incentive for people to become takers - even with the 'rich rewards' being touted - there are still only a handful.
The people that will profit are the ones who buy the wc breeders - adapt them to captivity to breed and sell offspring.
Cheers
Ad

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Here is a simple question for you moosenoose.
Do you think that any of the species legally collected here in W.A are now under threat as a species by the collecting practises as they stand at present.?

 

[peterjohnson64]

I am certainly not knowledgeable enough about reptile science to either agree or disagree with the wild caught stuff. In theory, it is terrible to see these animals taken. But conversely, it is better to remove incentives for NSW people to drive to WA to steal them themselves. People much smarter than me made this decision. Probably the closes thing I can compare it to is Prawn Fishermen in the Spencer Gulf. They are taking HEAPS of wild caught prawns but they are confident that they are not affecting wild populations. If they do take too many then guess what, they don't have mult million dollar business any more (each prawn licence is worth about $6 million - tuna ones in the hundreds of millions). Now before you start going on about prawns not being reptiles they are still animals that we are taking from the wild in massive numbers without affecting long term wild populations (according to the spin doctors anyway)

We could also look at an animal such as Eastern Water Dragons. If you collected a dominant male EWD then there is every chance that another male will then take it's place. This other male could well have lost its life to the dominant male in a territorial battle. So, by collecting either of those males you haven't really affected the wild population. This is exactly how I got my male. He was handed in to a wildlife resue service and was not able to be released. By removing an animal from the wild, you then reduce competition for resources, and perhaps allow for a new animal to take its place that would have otherwise perished.

Just my humble unqualified opinion

 

[PilbaraPythons]

A little food for thought.
For 40 thousands years the natives have harvested pythons and lizards for food here in the Pilbara. If there were only ten different tribes in W.A and each tribe were only to eat a number of lets say of 2 pythons a week (which in reality would be many more) then over a one year period they would have harvested in total 1040 snakes including many that would have been gravid. In a thousand years they would have harvested 1 040 000, in 40 thousand years of burning land and eating snakes it would be over 44 million snake killed. But surprise, surprise, BHPs and Woma?s etc are still very, common.
Why? They have more than one hatchling to compensate for predatory species that we are part of.
10 licensed takers couldn?t wipe these species out by wild collecting even if they tried and most natives do not hunt snakes for food any more.
I am not trying to rub people up the wrong way over this and I do believe that many people who are concerned only have good intentions. I do believe however that a few people are just not aware of the reality of the situation.

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

GTP prices & locality...
W.A collectors...
Hybrids & Intergrades...
Government & politics...
Race & Religion...

ARE ALL VERY OLD NEWS.
Can't we find a NEW subject to debate ???

How about Beer vs Bourbon

 

[peterjohnson64]

They don't make a "Blue Tongue Bourbon"

 

[Rossagon]

Beer gets me bloated, but i can't stay away from the stuff!!!!

 

[stencorp69]

A little food for thought.
For 40 thousands years the natives have harvested pythons and lizards for food here in the Pilbara. If there were only ten different tribes in W.A and each tribe were only to eat a number of lets say of 2 pythons a week (which in reality would be many more) then over a one year period they would have harvested in total 1040 snakes including many that would have been gravid. In a thousand years they would have harvested 1 040 000, in 40 thousand years of burning land and eating snakes it would be over 44 million snake killed. But surprise, surprise, BHPs and Woma?s etc are still very, common.
Why? They have more than one hatchling to compensate for predatory species that we are part of.
10 licensed takers couldn?t wipe these species out by wild collecting even if they tried and most natives do not hunt snakes for food any more.
I am not trying to rub people up the wrong way over this and I do believe that many people who are concerned only have good intentions. I do believe however that a few people are just not aware of the reality of the situation.

Not to mention Road Kill destroys more reptiles than yuo guys take. Its hypocracy to complain about what we are doing in the West when Eastern Staters did then same thing (only illegally) to get their hobby going.

Sten

PS I'm treading very lightly today so I don't upset anyone who may or may not export out of the state

 

[moosenoose]

That was my concern Ad, but after what I read from PilbaraPythons & stencorp69, I can understand Takers probably make very little impact on population numbers. You certainly aren't rubbing people up the wrong way Pilbara, I appreciate such an informative response, it has given me food for thought

 

[peterjohnson64]

Should re re-start the poll now?

 

[Guest]

Not to mention Road Kill destroys more reptiles than yuo guys take. Its hypocracy to complain about what we are doing in the West when Eastern Staters did then same thing (only illegally) to get their hobby going.

Sten

PS I'm treading very lightly today so I don't upset anyone who may or may not export out of the state

Not sure about the roadkill factor, recently in my drive from sydney to darwin, i saw one roadkill snake the whole trip, and i didnt see any that were decomposed or been on the side of the road for a while so it didnt seem like a common thing to be happening.

 

[steve6610]

all i can say is that if it wasn't for w/c reptiles then NOBODY would have any reptiles in their collection, it's time all the goody shoes thought of how they managed to get reptiles for privite collections in the first place, come on, get real, every living reptile came from w/c reptiles,

do i get a gold card now, :wink:

cheers,
steve.........

 

[Guest]

I think everyone understands that Steve, in which we are all grateful for no matter what state they are from. But the main argument is that most people feel that enough reptiles have been taken from the wild now to sustain the industry.