S.I.M. Incubation method!

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Fay, I have bearded dragon eggs in there at the moment. Yes they are easy to hatch but they dont need nearly as much humidity as other species. Unfortunately i only keep Pythons that need to be incubated. I have had no issues with the beardy eggs and they look better than what they normally do on vermiculite. I am just amazed at the amount of humidity in the tub. Its almost like fog in there. Very little condensation on the lids as well. Greg has informed me that the grid is safe for hatchling of most species. I have heard from John (his business partner) that some chondro breeders have had issues with hatchlings drowning where they could get through the grid and not find their way back out of the water (in the water incubation technique). The holes in this grid is minute and hatchlings can not get through it.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I thought i would add definitions for humidity as taken off the Australian governement website. I hope they dont mind. This will clarify what humidity we are talking about.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Humidity Definitions[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Humidity is essentially the number of water vapour molecules in the air, but there are many and varied ways of expressing it. All of these terms are used scientifically, but humidity figures provided for public use in newspapers are usually relative humidity.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Figure 2
Change in amount of water vapour in saturated air with temperature.
The air's capacity for water vapour increases as air temperature increases.
Air with a temperature of 30°C can hold more than three times
as much water vapour as air at 10°C.[/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Absolute humidity [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mass of water vapour in a unit volume of air. It is a measure of the actual water vapour content of the air.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Specific humidity[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The mass of water vapour per unit mass of air (including the water vapour). It is another measure of the actual water vapour content of the air.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mixing ratio[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The mass of water vapour per unit mass of dry air (excluding the water vapour). Another measure of the actual water vapour of the air.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Vapour pressure[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The partial pressure of the water vapour. Yet another measure of the actual water vapour content of the air. (Air pressure is the sum of the partial pressures of the gases comprising the air.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Saturation[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The air is saturated with water vapour when it holds as much water vapour as it can at that temperature.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Saturated vapour pressure[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The water vapour pressure when the air is saturated.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dew-point
The temperature to which air must be cooled (at constant pressure and constant water vapour content) for saturation to occur.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Frost point[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
When the dew-point falls below freezing it is called the frost point.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wet-bulb temperature [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
In simple terms, the lowest temperature to which air can be cooled by evaporating water into it.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Relative humidity (RH)[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The ratio of the actual amount of water vapour in the air to the amount it could hold when saturated expressed as a percentage OR the ratio of the actual vapour pressure to the saturation vapour pressure expressed as a percentage.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The amount of water vapour the air can hold increases with temperature. Relative humidity therefore decreases with increasing temperature if the actual amount of water vapour stays the same.[/FONT]

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[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Figure 3
Relative humidity varies significantly when the temperature changes,
even when the actual amount of water vapour in the air remains the same.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]

Temperature ________
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Relative Humidity[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] _ _ _ _[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Relative humidity[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] =

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The actual amount of water vapour in the air x 100%[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The amount of water vapour required to saturate the air at that temperature [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]OR[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The actual vapour pressure x 100%[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The saturated vapour pressure at that temperature[/SIZE][/FONT]​

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

So the way i understand it is that when we deal with incubation tubs we are dealing with Absolute Humidity.
Absolute humidity [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mass of water vapour in a unit volume of air. It is a measure of the actual water vapour content of the air.[/FONT]

 

[Sdaji]

So the way i understand it is that when we deal with incubation tubs we are dealing with Absolute Humidity.
Absolute humidity [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mass of water vapour in a unit volume of air. It is a measure of the actual water vapour content of the air.[/FONT]

If you keep the temperature and volume constant you should also have a fixed mass of air, so it might seem strange to think of it, but we are still measuring the relative humidity (which is why we give it as a percentage, and that value is still relative to the maximum amount it could take at that temperature). If it was absolute (the actual water content), we would report it in different units - mass (or mols) of water per mass/mols of air.

...not that it makes any difference to the tub, incubation methods, etc.

You have very nicely shown how difficult humidity is to understand, and I have been trying for three or four years now to get my head around it, with only limited success.

 

[jay76]

mate,mate,mate you keep high end animals and like showing them off, then you whinge about snake ranch's prices, now you whinge about a $30 plastic tub that you think should be 20 bucks. snap out of it.

To start with what does posting photos of reptiles have anything to do with it. With the snakes ranch prices I think they are where they should be but my point is that 18 months ago the het darwins were $1200 dollars a pair, so I thought they would be cheaper than what they were this year. I got a pair off them and could not be happier with them. The service was great and they were easy to deal with. With the containers I think are a good idea and it is about time some one started to bring stuff like this in from overseas but it would cost me too much to set up with them. I Think they would sell great in pet shops, so if I was bringing them in from over seas I would be contacting the larger shops in australia and getting them to stock them. Cheers Jarrod

 

[Serpentes]

Yes, we are talking about relative humidity when dealing with incubation, and at most other times. Absolute humidity is rarely used by laymen.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[yommy]

So how do we order them?

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I am currently trying to get a load in via airmail. There will be some coming in via sea freight in about a month. There should be a shopping cart available on our website within this week if you wanted to pay securely over the web. This will ensure that you are one of the first to obtain one of these units. I might just have to bite the bullet and pay for air freight so that these units can be around for the Australian public to try out in their incubators.

 

[GreggMadden]

I think are a good idea and it is about time some one started to bring stuff like this in from overseas but it would cost me too much to set up with them.

Personally, I dont think a price can be put on better hatch rates and healthier neonates... Dropping a little more cash is worth it when you know you do not have to worry if your ratio is correct or if your eggs are going to get fuzzy... Thats my opinion...

As far as the question goes about different species of reptile eggs need different humidity requirements goes, the answer is very simple... You can control the amount of humidity in the container by adding more or less water to your substrate... Being that the eggs are not sitting in a substrate, eggs tend to be more forgiving of human error when it comes to ratios... These containers can also be vented as well...

As of right now, we have hatched reptile species with different requirements on a 50/50 water to perlite ratio by weight...

The thing is, this container allow the eggs to take the humidity in that they need, not what is being forced on them by being burried in a damp substrate... You will notice that the eggs surface stays dry while incubating in this container...

 

[Christopher]

What about the underside of the eggs? Does condensation form on the undersurface in a similar fashion to how it forms on the lid?
They look great btw and I'd probably spend the extra cash to avoid cutting egg crate etc.

 

[jay76]

Personally, I dont think a price can be put on better hatch rates and healthier neonates... Dropping a little more cash is worth it when you know you do not have to worry if your ratio is correct or if your eggs are going to get fuzzy... Thats my opinion...

As far as the question goes about different species of reptile eggs need different humidity requirements goes, the answer is very simple... You can control the amount of humidity in the container by adding more or less water to your substrate... Being that the eggs are not sitting in a substrate, eggs tend to be more forgiving of human error when it comes to ratios... These containers can also be vented as well...

As of right now, we have hatched reptile species with different requirements on a 50/50 water to perlite ratio by weight...

The thing is, this container allow the eggs to take the humidity in that they need, not what is being forced on them by being burried in a damp substrate... You will notice that the eggs surface stays dry while incubating in this container...

I get 100% now with spending under $15 and I use water now so I dont have to worry about my ratio. So my question is what other advantages do I get for my $15+ per tub.

 

[BeJayz]

Hi Nicole & Chris
Do you still have the containers available? We are interested in purchasing 7x. What would the total cost be and what would the postage to Sydney NSW be? Also how is payment made?
Kind regards, Fiona

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Bejays you can shoot me a pm and I'll try to get back to you. This product is really not a hard sell. You either see the value in it or you don't. Stick to your method if it will cost you too much to convert. I have converted and will never need to use anything else. I might just have to get some more.

 

[Moreliaman]

Personally, I dont think a price can be put on better hatch rates and healthier neonates... Dropping a little more cash is worth it when you know you do not have to worry if your ratio is correct or if your eggs are going to get fuzzy... Thats my opinion...

Im not so sure about that mate... ive had eggs covered in mould & theyve hatched.....eggs attached to a dying one covered in mould & the healthy egg still hatches.....ive always been lead to believe a healthy egg shouldnt be affected by any mould & if the eggs healthy then the resulting neonate should be too................has anyone here ever lost a healthy clutch of eggs to mould ? i know i havent.

Personally I dont think throwing extra cash at a problem is always the best solution....and if i can make something that works just as well then why not.....i know some cant be bothered with the hassle of making things & for those people.......this product is perfect

 

[pythons73]

Breeders that have great sucess over the years wont fix a problem if they havent got one,however the newer people that havent breed any-many clutches WILL find this a extremely handle piece for incubating their eggs..Whats a xtra $10-$20 on something when it comes down to hatching those eggs,its priceless..This product seems like a valuable piece to have if you intend to breed...I for one would like to get a couple....MARK

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Pre orders for these units are now over. They left the USA and might be here by mid next week. I was inundated with pm's and e-mails. I am sure all the members who pre-ordered these units will be extremely happy with the quality of them. I cant wait to get some feedback and have the chance to discuss breeding results. I will send an e-mail to all the the pre order customers as soon as I have them.
Regards
PS: These units are back at the original price of $35 each again.

 

[bigi]

i think they are a great idea, whether a person buys one or not, good luck to you all, which i sincerly mean.

What will be the price of the larger model

and CARPETPYTHONS.COM could i please ask a question without sounding silly

i quote

We suggest venting the lid by adding a few small holes to avoid an air tight situation.

and

Why would this container need to be aired more?

isnt this a contradiction, and if you do suggest to add ventilation, why is it not manufactured with this option.

thanks and good luck

 

[GreggMadden]

i think they are a great idea, whether a person buys one or not, good luck to you all, which i sincerly mean.

What will be the price of the larger model

and CARPETPYTHONS.COM could i please ask a question without sounding silly

i quote

We suggest venting the lid by adding a few small holes to avoid an air tight situation.

and

Why would this container need to be aired more?

isnt this a contradiction, and if you do suggest to add ventilation, why is it not manufactured with this option.

thanks and good luck

It was not manufactured with vent holes because everyone has their own way do doing thing... Some people like holes in the lid, some like them on the sides and some do not use holes at all... We suggested that a couple of hole be added because that is what worked for us so far... Again we are still at a 100% hatch rate to date...

And thank you for your kind words about the product and throwing some good luck our way!!!

 

[cheddah]

Tubs look good, atleast with flat lids you could probably stack them ontop of each other if need be.

Anyway just curious about how you've got your beardie eggs pictured on page 2 i think it was. Looks like you've moved them since they were laid? I was under the impression they had to be incubated in the same position in which they were laid, or is this false?