vegetarians and vegans

[Defective]

apology accepted

 

[Defective]

IDK??? when you discover the answer, lemme know yeah

 

[kawasakirider]

How is it that can't Jesus spell?

What?

 

[Defective]

foolness instead of foolishness

 

[Red-Ink]

What?

"he gave up too please stop this foolness"

Foolness? what in the holy sanctimonious crap is that?

 

[kawasakirider]

"he gave up too please stop this foolness"

Foolness? what in the holy sanctimonious crap is that?

Where is this illiterate phantom post?

 

[Red-Ink]

Where is this illiterate phantom post?

on the pic mate...

 

[Defective]

nah they got deleted!

 

[K3nny]

we've already gone through all the meat eaters trying to start an argument. If you dont actually have a constructive comment apart from 'meat is good, in my belly' its realllly unneeded at this point.

This is what im annoyed about... Its not even the vegos that start it. Its you guys disrespecting something that we feel strongly about

16 pages after a day? (give or take) wow...
ok, not trying to argue or anything, but just a few points for discussion's sake

1) going completely vegan means you'll miss some nutrients, including vitamins and protein. YES beans and stuff have some protein but structure wise it is quite different from the one you get from meat, not to mention the cocktail of nutrients that actually comes with meat is absent in veg alone

2) unless you go all out organic/sustainable, chances are the ecological damage is almost equal to that of conventional farming practices

3) theres alot on animal abuse, yes its bad, but when you keep them in decent conditions like some have pointed out (this is within aussie assuming general practices are humane, which i think it is), then how is this different than keeping a pet?

4) evolutionary-wise there is alot of evidence against going vego. Canines are one thing, another is our intestinal track as if we were designed to only eat greens (a ridiculous idea to begin with), we'd be able to digest cellulose for starters, and our appendix would be longer and actually usable
theres also some evidence that omega-3s (i.e. fish) in the diet helped increase our brain size into what it is today

now i'd like to hear your point of view (or anyone's really)

 

[KaotikJezta]

there usually only $2 more at my woolies... and really $4 in the scheme of things anyway?

Except free range eggs from woolies cannot be trusted to be free range, none of them are certified for a start, Coles has certified ones that cost $8.80 per carton.

 

[Jazzz]

Yeah I didn't mean woolies brand... The smiley ones =]

 

[saximus]

Do the RSPCA ones count? They're the ones I buy from Woolies and they're about $4.20 for a half dozen carton

I'm going to answer these from a vege point of view (just to be argumentative )

1) going completely vegan means you'll miss some nutrients, including vitamins and protein. YES beans and stuff have some protein but structure wise it is quite different from the one you get from meat, not to mention the cocktail of nutrients that actually comes with meat is absent in veg alone
I agree that meat contains a very good mix of vitamins and minerals but if you get the right combination of veg you can come pretty close and a few of the girls here have already said that they don't suffer from and any health issues from lack of nutrients. Also when you consider how unhealthy we are as a society, I think you'll find most of us meat eaters don't eat enough veg to give us the rest of the vitamins we are supposed to have in our diets anyway.

2) unless you go all out organic/sustainable, chances are the ecological damage is almost equal to that of conventional farming practices
I agree with this to an extent. The way the world is today it would be all but impossible to cause no ecological damage (unless you live in a completely self sufficient commune). However, I think if you can reduce your personal impact you're going some way at least to making a difference.

3) theres alot on animal abuse, yes its bad, but when you keep them in decent conditions like some have pointed out (this is within aussie assuming general practices are humane, which i think it is), then how is this different than keeping a pet?
Can't argue with this one at all. That's the point I was making earlier. We can't be the world animal police, so the best we can do is ensure the animals in our country that are used for our own industry are treated in a humane way.

4) evolutionary-wise there is alot of evidence against going vego. Canines are one thing, another is our intestinal track as if we were designed to only eat greens (a ridiculous idea to begin with), we'd be able to digest cellulose for starters, and our appendix would be longer and actually usable
theres also some evidence that omega-3s (i.e. fish) in the diet helped increase our brain size into what it is today
In that Gary Yourovsky video, he actually describes the opposite to what you say here. He says that carnivores have much shorter digestive tracts because meat travelling through tracts as long as ours tends to rot and end up causing issues. After watching the video I did some research and found there are scientific studies that argue both sides of this and so there isn't a definitive answer yet. However, one of the more convincing arguments I found was that dogs and pigs have similar ratios of digestive tract to torso size to us. Both of these animals are omnivorous (with dogs being complete carnivores in the wild). I have also heard that one of the potential reasons for our appendix is that it is a vestigial rumen style organ. This would indicate that we were once vegetarian species but as we evolved to eat more meat we lost the need for it.

Anyway I hope that answers those questions until one of the actual veges comes along and provides something better.

 

[Jazzz]

Do the RSPCA ones count? They're the ones I buy from Woolies and they're about $4.20 for a half dozen carton

I'm going to answer these from a vege point of view (just to be argumentative )

Anyway I hope that answers those questions until one of the actual veges comes along and provides something better.

yeah that sounds good =] apart from number 3. Pigs are kept in disgusting conditions (worse then cattle) and they are smarter than dogs. Chickens are also kept in disgusting conditions! the only way you can make this argument is if you buy rspca approved chicken and bacon.

you dont keep a pet with the intention of ending its life for your own benefit - i know my pets are spoilt rotten and do not have their beaks clipped off or are forced to give birth standing up because they dont have enough room to lie on their side.

 

[KaotikJezta]

Do the RSPCA ones count? They're the ones I buy from Woolies and they're about $4.20 for a half dozen carton

No, I don't think they are certified either, can't think of the certified brand and I am pretty sure the RSPCA ones are PACE farms eggs and I wouldn't trust anything they sell. Pretty much, if a company sells cage eggs you can be pretty sure there free range eggs either are not free range or meet the bare minimum free range standard. I'm going to get my own chooks I think, that way I will be assured that they are looked after properly.

 

[moosenoose]

There should be more vegans and vegetarians....with hope it'll bring the cost of meat down

 

[AshleighMarie]

hmmmm this is still going i see

 

[Jazzz]

No, I don't think they are certified either, can't think of the certified brand and I am pretty sure the RSPCA ones are PACE farms eggs and I wouldn't trust anything they sell. Pretty much, if a company sells cage eggs you can be pretty sure there free range eggs either are not free range or meet the bare minimum free range standard. I'm going to get my own chooks I think, that way I will be assured that they are looked after properly.

go on homes for hens! =]

i really want to get some but i just dont have the room atm...

 

[K3nny]

hmmmm this is still going i see

if you mean constructive discussion, by all means
+ this thread is good practice for my career path

conversely i have a book thats quite good and supports on going vego, the merits seem plausible (on a health point of view) but it is abit too extreme for my personal preference atm,mayble later on in life but yea
the book's called the China Study by Campbell and Campbell II, great read but on the heavy side if anyone's interested

and back to the discussion, 1) yes a mixture of veg (as opposed to a single type) does way better things, i agree, however in alot of cases (just going from memory on my lecture notes), no veg so far has a high enough content of vitamin B that is recommended. Closest to it i think is grains, and the highest levels are found in... red meat. If you do eat alot of the veg then i suppose it would make this argument invalid tho.

oh i think i should add, cz i'm not completely sure, im arguing more on vegans as opposed to vegetarians. Why? vegetarians do eat eggs and milk (i think thats the deffiniton), and both have an excellent amount of nutrients, eggs for one have all 20 of the essential amino acids

4) a longer appendix is found in most other herbivores as thats where they digest their cellulose (as you said, a rumen like organ), humans and many other omnivores have lost that ability because theres more foodstuffs that contain more nutrients which are easier to digest and not so expensive energy-wise like meat.
i'm quite surprised no one has checked on primates, if anything the greater primates (more notably chimps) should have a more similiar digestive track.

 

[Jackrabbit]

im a vegetarian =] and i eat free range eggs and rennet free cheese. Mock all you want but if everyone was a vegetarian the world would be fed.

someone once said (maybe from this site), I eat the animals that contribute to global warming, vegos/vegans eat the plants that could stop it. who is doing the right thing?

 

[Jazzz]

someone once said (maybe from this site), I eat the animals that contribute to global warming, vegos/vegans eat the plants that could stop it. who is doing the right thing?

I don't understand how crops stop global warming? If you mean that land is cleared for them, the vast majority of that is for cattle grazing as the land is really infertile once the forest is removed