Why why why!!!!!!

[andynic07]

How much more can it go up? I'm already on $350 a year.

Maybe yours will come down with the introduction of the test. hahaha. That there is one reason that the WA government will fight tooth and nail to keep separate licenses to the rest of the states.

 

[Bluetongue1]

dont be so silly............ the world is full of nonsense paperwork as it is.............and i suppose you pay each time you apply and when you a... you must pay again next time you sit the test ???? do you work at the RTA ????
so you want all the nerds to be able to get a license first...??
absolutely not acceptable, and cant understand why anyone would agree with you

It is personal comments such as the RTA quip that detract from the the forum as a whole and this post specifically.

It seems that you are defining the term "nerd", through your usage, as anyone who knows enough about general care of reptiles to pass the test first up. That is NOT my understanding of the term. You have given zero reason why it would be unacceptable and I am left to draw my own conclusions as to why you "can't understand why...".


If you had utilised the RTA reference appropriately then you could have pointed out that they provide an information booklet of all the basic facts and examples of the application thereof, that they expect one to know for the theory test. Now that would have been a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.


Blue

 

[Bluetongue1]

You seem to want to enforce the "If I can't find it in 2 minutes it not worth my time reading" thought process, if the first six websites don't contain the information you need then you continue to look until you find it, that or learn to use google properly with specific search queries. to make one step by step...
To be honest this seems like nothing other than justification for the people that neglect their new additions, anyone who assumes what you have described should not only never own pets but should be committed. ....
I think your analogy is not only very naive but dangerous because it allows people to use ignorance as an excuse for their own laziness and lack of effort.

If you can extract: "You seem to want to enforce the "If I can't find it in 2 minutes it not worth my time reading" thought process..." from what I have said, then I am clearly wasting wasting my time. The same applies with: "...if the first six websites don't contain the information you need then you continue to look until you find it..." when the point being made is they do not know what what information they need, so how the hell are they supposed to know when they find it? Not even unsolicited posts from newbies reaffirming that experience have managed to get that across.


You state "...or learn to use google properly with specific search queries". I am the one who used google. Does this mean I should have entered "A Guide to Caring for Bearded Dragons" and the first website given would definitely be the one I am looking for? And if I had heard about click-clacks and wanted to buy one but recognise I need to know about them first, should I enter: "A guide to buying a click-clack"? or maybe: "A guide to click-clacks". I also fail to see how use of a reptile forum shows lack of initiative or lack of common sense. I would have interpreted these actions from a rank beginner as being just the opposite.


Apart from drawing considerably more a very long bow to arrive at the above inferences, whilst you persist in believing that somehow everyone should have what I can only describe as an intuitative understanding of reptile keeping, rather than beginning from a point of almost total ignorance or even having developed misconceptions, we shall quite clearly never agree.

Finally, the last two quoted sentences are absolute gems. No comment from me required.


Blue

 

[ShaunMorelia]

I can only assume that you hate RH because of his venomoids, yet you keep a jag which has a known neurological birth defect. My question to you is, what makes you any better? Is mental anguish better than physical anguish in your books?

I've never said that I "hated" this Haymond Roser bloke, and The reason I bought him up wasn't because of his venom gland removal methods, but as to his "re-naming" of animals. So I don't see why you want to bring up jags and try and rope me into a different topic for debate.

Regarding your comments on the release of captive bred animals back in to the hobby, are you sure of that? What do you base this on because I'm pretty sure they haven't ruled that possibility out.


Ok, to go into more in-depth about why I think they will never call on Private collections for re-stocking wild populations.
- It's a private collection once it's in someone's private collection, they can pretty much do what they want.
- Can't be positive they are pure locality unless poached and only bred those poached animals together.
- Zoo's and other Wildlife Parks are given permits to collect and create breeding programs to re-stock wild populations.
- Various licencing regulations throughout the country creates discrepancies. (e.g. Victoria's licencing up until recently, only had M.s.spilota, M.s.Varigata as the subspecies of Morelia spilota. As did most states at some stage.)
- With success of captive breeding by a reptile park with the Rough scaled Python, and the Oenpelli project being undertaken by Gavin Bedford, gives the government bodies reason to continue with that approach, as they are successful and bring much needed funds into their departments..

To a lot of people this isn't a HOBBY (I can read lowercase by the way), it's a way of life. A lot of us don't just see the pretty colours of mulga food or see keeping reptiles as something that makes us tough or unique, but hey, you go champion!

The point of my post, is that to most (I would hazzard a guess at 98% of reptile keepers in Australia), this is a HOBBY to them, myself included. I enjoy keeping my animals inside my house, I don't have reptiles because it makes me "tough or unique". I keep them because I have an interest in these animals personally, just like my dogs, chickens and a few others.

The great thing about hobbies is that each person has their own way that they like it.
You may feed your mulgas "pretty" animals, others may prefer to feed the "bland" animals to theirs.

It seems as though you've taken my post personally, as it comes across from you text to be having a go at me.
That was not the case, hence why I didn't quote your post or put your tag name to it.

Thanks
Shaun.

 

[Tesla]

If you can extract: "You seem to want to enforce the "If I can't find it in 2 minutes it not worth my time reading" thought process..." from what I have said, then I am clearly wasting wasting my time. The same applies with: "...if the first six websites don't contain the information you need then you continue to look until you find it..." when the point being made is they do not know what what information they need, so how the hell are they supposed to know when they find it? Not even unsolicited posts from newbies reaffirming that experience have managed to get that across.


You state "...or learn to use google properly with specific search queries". I am the one who used google. Does this mean I should have entered "A Guide to Caring for Bearded Dragons" and the first website given would definitely be the one I am looking for? And if I had heard about click-clacks and wanted to buy one but recognise I need to know about them first, should I enter: "A guide to buying a click-clack"? or maybe: "A guide to click-clacks". I also fail to see how use of a reptile forum shows lack of initiative or lack of common sense. I would have interpreted these actions from a rank beginner as being just the opposite.


Apart from drawing considerably more a very long bow to arrive at the above inferences, whilst you persist in believing that somehow everyone should have what I can only describe as an intuitative understanding of reptile keeping, rather than beginning from a point of almost total ignorance or even having developed misconceptions, we shall quite clearly never agree.

Finally, the last two quoted sentences are absolute gems. No comment from me required.


Blue

Do you really need to know anything about herpetology to type in "what do I keep a baby snake in" or "diamond python care" or "heating a diamond python", "diamond python enclosure size", "diamond python food" etc etc etc. What pre-education do you really need to search the above? Apart from very basic literary and computer skills you need to know absolutely nothing, even my 9 year old son searches basic queries on google for pictures for projects and information on video games yet magically has never had any experience with giraffes or been an Italian plumber who runs around jumping on turtles collecting coins but he seems to get by rather well. .

The comments from me you quoted are 100% true, you are doing nothing more than promoting laziness by handing people everything on a silver platter.

 

[Tesla]

I've never said that I "hated" this Haymond Roser bloke, and The reason I bought him up wasn't because of his venom gland removal methods, but as to his "re-naming" of animals. So I don't see why you want to bring up jags and try and rope me into a different topic for debate.

Regarding your comments on the release of captive bred animals back in to the hobby, are you sure of that? What do you base this on because I'm pretty sure they haven't ruled that possibility out.


Ok, to go into more in-depth about why I think they will never call on Private collections for re-stocking wild populations.
- It's a private collection once it's in someone's private collection, they can pretty much do what they want.
- Can't be positive they are pure locality unless poached and only bred those poached animals together.
- Zoo's and other Wildlife Parks are given permits to collect and create breeding programs to re-stock wild populations.
- Various licencing regulations throughout the country creates discrepancies. (e.g. Victoria's licencing up until recently, only had M.s.spilota, M.s.Varigata as the subspecies of Morelia spilota. As did most states at some stage.)
- With success of captive breeding by a reptile park with the Rough scaled Python, and the Oenpelli project being undertaken by Gavin Bedford, gives the government bodies reason to continue with that approach, as they are successful and bring much needed funds into their departments..





The point of my post, is that to most (I would hazzard a guess at 98% of reptile keepers in Australia), this is a HOBBY to them, myself included. I enjoy keeping my animals inside my house, I don't have reptiles because it makes me "tough or unique". I keep them because I have an interest in these animals personally, just like my dogs, chickens and a few others.

The great thing about hobbies is that each person has their own way that they like it.
You may feed your mulgas "pretty" animals, others may prefer to feed the "bland" animals to theirs.

It seems as though you've taken my post personally, as it comes across from you text to be having a go at me.
That was not the case, hence why I didn't quote your post or put your tag name to it.

Thanks
Shaun.

So what if he tries to reclassify animals, how does that effect you as a self confessed pet keeper who has no interest in herpetology? I may not agree with his taxa but just because you or I don't like it doesn't mean he has to stop, the same way Richard wells has been called a cancer of taxonomy yet is still respected by many people like myself and thousands of others, a lack of a biology or scientific degree doesn't make someone else's amateur work any less valid.

Regarding the release of captive animals, again, if you don't have any interest in herpetology how many articles or papers could you have realistically read on the subject? There is a 160 something page report on P. barbata which claimed wild populations of males are going sterile, it also covers possible release of captive bred stock in the future so please explain how a zoo is going to manage to breed a species which is sterile?
I think you also completely misunderstand the way a native breeding program works, a private body such as a zoo or facility will receive a grant and be paid for their work so I don't understand how that actually brings any money in for the government if they are the ones funding the effort?Did you really think zoos took rare animals in because they are kind hearted?

I haven't taken your post personally just taken it as someone who obviously hasn't done nearly enough research on the subject to form any type of opinion on the matter, I think my above argument shows that.

 

[GeckoJosh]

I am more than happy to educate my customers on husbandry prior to purchase, in fact I prefer that they ask me rather than get the wrong advice from somewhere else.
The majority of people who buy of me have never kept geckos/dragons etc before and although many have done basic research I find it is often incorrect due to the massive amount of misinformation out there.

I have found that with a little guidance these "noobs" more often than not become successful reptile keepers and end up embracing the hobby.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Thank you Tesla. I did sit back and have a good laugh at it all.


I know a little bit about herpetology. What I do know a lot about is teaching and learning - having devoted well over 30 years to training, in-servicing and putting it into practice. Yet our discussion has been you informing me about teaching and learning practices. You have admit, that's pretty funny!

Cheers,
Blue

 

[Newhere]

People learn in different ways, if someone cares enough and puts in enough effort to find a forum so they can seek the advice of people who know what they are talking about then good on em I say. At least they are trying to get some information to look after the animal and not neglecting it like some people do.