i suppose breeders are in it for the money and not the enjoyment
I beg your pardon?
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i suppose breeders are in it for the money and not the enjoyment
Melissa, no one said that keeping reptiles in small plastic boxes is detrimental to them. It's a matter aesthetics and the keeper's reason for keeping reptiles in the first place. Imagine going to the zoo and seeing snakes on display on newspaper, etc.. I always said - if you're a snake farmer, great, keep them like battery choocks, if you're a snake lover / enthusiast keep them in landscape cages. That's just my attitude, you don't have to follow it or even agree with it.
yea i keep rats in tubs and they probably kept cleaner and more feed than myself
I thought the welfare of the animals was the major concern here, not aesthetics? Why is it acceptable for large breeders to keep their animals like battery hens? Necessary venom collection etc. is possibly a different story, but nonetheless, it is certainly not ideal. Big establishments, particularly venom collection set ups house so many snakes that it is sometimes necessary to keep them in smaller enclosures than one would like to see. This doesn't mean the snakes are kept in poor conditions. I keep a lot of my animals in tubs, but I believe housing animals without ample space is unacceptable in all cases, irrespective of the amount of animals any keeper has accumulated.
Also, I don't think it's exactly logical to make a blanket statement stating that all keepers started collecting for the same reason, and I very much doubt that it is correct in all cases. I don't quite understand where you coming from. "Keepers started collecting for the same reason" who said that?
I hardly think you can draw parallels between a private collection and the animals on exhibit at the zoo. Why not? People are being charged to view animals at the zoo, and aesthetics are obviously paramount in this case. Charging money has nothing to do with it - Zoos have obligations to educate the public. It's not about the "look" it's about showing the viewers a piece of the animal's habitat. A private collection is just that - private. Most keepers don't mind newspaper, and can derive enjoyment from the animal regardless of what substrate is in the enclosure. Fair enough.
I am certainly no "snake farmer" so I suppose I am a "snake lover/enthusiast," but I do not keep all of my animals in landscaped enclosures. It's your choice, your prerogative. This in no way means that you derive more enjoyment from your animals than I do, it simply means that your enclosures are much more appealing, and the combination of the animal and the great enclosure would come into play. The difference is in that you deprive yourself from observing the animal's natural behaviour but if that doesn't interest you, so be it. It is very important to me. I immensely enjoy all of my animals equally - the ones I keep in display enclosures are no more appealing to me than those that are in my racks.
I keep a few larger animals in landscaped display enclosures, and I feel that they are no better off than any of those that I keep in my racks. Whilst I love the look of display enclosures (some of yours are absolutely beautiful I must add), I do not want them in every room of my house either. I love the neat, compact look of my racks, and the reduction in workload and the quick and easy cleaning is a life-saver. The fact that I can house all of the animals I keep properly (whether that is in an enclosure with ample room, or a tub with ample room) is what I believe is important here, and my use of racking systems does not mean that I am less of a "lover" or "enthusiast" than anyone that keeps all of their animals in pretty enclosures. No one is accusing of being less .... this & that. There are however many keepers who keep their animals in racks for different reasons to yours.
As long as you meet all of your animals' needs, then the rest is really an individual choice. I do not believe that one is better than the other, racking systems just simply suit some keepers better than display enclosures and vice versa. You have said it - "suits".
As long as you meet all of your animals' needs, then the rest is really an individual choice. I do not believe that one is better than the other, racking systems just simply suit some keepers better than display enclosures and vice versa.
Charging money has nothing to do with it - Zoos have obligations to educate the public. It's not about the "look" it's about showing the viewers a piece of the animal's habitat.
Absolutely... I think that if you can provide them the enrichment or the chance to behave as naturally as possible in captivity... in a tub... it probably makes no difference to the snake. Perhaps depending on the species, an opaque tub with all needs accounted for and ample space would be preferable to the snake itself. You are certainly one for detail Melissa, I can not imagine you missing any of your snakes needs.
Keeping a huge snake in a tiny tub that it can not even lift its head above its body... that is not even a third of its total length... that when curled up they take up two thirds of it... tis pretty sad. I haven't heard of any aussie keepers doing such a thing. But I have seen it repeated many times in the US.
Keeping hatchies in tubs is fine but larger snakes is wrong and cruel.
Also agree. I personally know of a large Scrubby that is very inadequately housed, and I doubt he is an isolated case. It is sad, and what's just as sad is that some people tar all that keep animals in racks with the same brush as those that keep animals in cramped conditions.
These are exactly the statements that I was talking about above.
So keeping a large snake in a large tub, providing ample space, a perch, hides, heating and all the rest is cruel in your opinion? How so exactly? Enlighten us. Is it because the tub isn't made of wood and doesn't have a glass front?
These are exactly the statements that I was talking about above.
So keeping a large snake in a large tub, providing ample space, a perch, hides, heating and all the rest is cruel in your opinion? How so exactly? Enlighten us. Is it because the tub isn't made of wood and doesn't have a glass front?
Keeping hatchies in tubs is fine but larger snakes is wrong and cruel.
Smaller collections, bigger enclosures, and deeper knowledge of our wild herps are all things which should be encouraged in the hobby.
sums it up perfectly
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