cadwallader
Very Well-Known Member
wow that enclosure is amazing no one can say that a snake would prefer to live in that then a plain tubs, also i would look at the tub for a minute i could look at that for hours
yes because snakes dont like to be in a plain enclosure, they like colors and textures and pretty things
Apples & oranges, hmmmm. Have you seen Boyds in the wild? They sit on a tree trunks for hours waiting for insects to get within their reach. They are as solitary as snakes and being thermoconformers, they don't move in and out of sun spots.
"generally the same basics"? That's a bit of generalization Paul.
Apples & oranges, hmmmm. Have you seen Boyds in the wild? They sit on a tree trunks for hours waiting for insects to get within their reach. They are as solitary as snakes and being thermoconformers, they don't move in and out of sun spots.
"generally the same basics"? That's a bit of generalization Paul.
Sorry that comment was a bit off topic when talking about boyds, as you said they too are a ambush predator that primarily lives a solitary life which is common for most of the larger lizards. Whilst yes most keepers keep boyds and angle heads in a more landscaped enclosure but they could be kept just as easily in a more basic setup aswell, i dont believe it to be essential to landscape an enclosure. I dont see that comment as a generalization. Both basic and landscaped enclosures typically have the same thing, perches, hides, lighting, heating etc, just different materials and objects are used to fulfill those purposes to give a more natural or artificial look. Even with the more interactive lizards i do not believe a landscaped enclosure to be essential. It all comes down to the keeper and what they want and i dont believe they are any better or worse in either housing styleApples & oranges, hmmmm. Have you seen Boyds in the wild? They sit on a tree trunks for hours waiting for insects to get within their reach. They are as solitary as snakes and being thermoconformers, they don't move in and out of sun spots.
"generally the same basics"? That's a bit of generalization Paul.
That's a bit of generalization Paul.
From what i have seen most tubs and more natural looking enclosures generally have the same basics, hide, perch, heat, space. The main difference being what they are made out of ie natural looking fake rock hide vs cardboard hide. Neither of those 2 enclosure types provide what i would really call stimulus. As you know snakes are fairly "lazy", they are ambush predators so most of their time is spent either waiting for food or digesting a meal, they are a totally different animal to most lizards which are active predators and many have some kind of social structure and interact with others so comparing the way snakes are housed compared to the way lizards are housed is like comparing apples to oranges
Some snakes are well suited to display enclosures, but its much harder to provide a good healthy environment.
I disagree, spot cleaning, and an occasional complete change of bedding. Barely different at all to cleaning newspaper
I would prefer to have all my snakes in $800+ display enclosures
Says it all right?
On the subject of providing stimulus there is no differance between a tub and a display enclosure although many display enclosures would do a better job of stimulating stress if not carefully designed. I make no apologies for not spending money when it makes no differance to the snakes well being.
Debatable. Who says a natural enclosure is a stressful environment? Given, it may take getting used to but so would coming from a natural one into a plastic one . Also, depends how you define wellbeing... If as lifespan then they are equal. If you define wellbeing as the activity and "lifestyle" of a wild python then there is a significant difference.
If someone can reproduce suitable habitat a display enclosure is going to be better, what i was trying to point out is that many people especially new keepers know SFA about trying to set up enlosures like this in a way that suits the snake. If you are keeping it in a suitable size tub it is far easier and cheaper with much less room for error.
I definately prefer display enclosures, but that is due to it looking better in my eye rather than the snakes wellbeing. I agree with what Waterat has said on this part of the topic about why people are keeping snakes etc. If i cant get around to making display enclosure for many of my reptiles within the 20-100 years they live for i would feel pretty stupid. Its just that im content to just look after the animals needs untill im able to make better looking enclosures so that my eyes can be more happy.
WOW!!
I have always been struck by your enclosures and the effort you put into providing a natural environment for your animals.
May I be cheeky and ask the dimensions of that enclosure and how long your python is.
Thanks,
Akwendi.
Melissa, no one said that keeping reptiles in small plastic boxes is detrimental to them. It's a matter aesthetics and the keeper's reason for keeping reptiles in the first place. Imagine going to the zoo and seeing snakes on display on newspaper, etc.. I always said - if you're a snake farmer, great, keep them like battery choocks, if you're a snake lover / enthusiast keep them in landscape cages. That's just my attitude, you don't have to follow it or even agree with it.
---------- Post added 15-Jan-11 at 10:15 AM ----------
Somebody said the magic word - "stimulus". Undeniably, reptiles kept in large, landscapes enclosures (periodically changed) or outdoor pits are more active and that alone has to be good for them if nothing else.
yes i will confirm this is all in relation to pythons, whist elapids are ambush predators they are alot more active and should be provided with space as such but thats what i have been saying all along, as long as they are provided adequate space, heat, shelter and perches (for arboreal species) then i dont believe they NEED to have a fancy background and naturalistic substrate and fake rock hides etc. I will also say i have a shockingly slow internet connection so i havent been able to see exactly what snakebytes keep theirs in but it seems this turned quite rapidly into a "tubs are bad" thread.
if anything over and above food, water and heat to have quality of life.
Thanks for the compliment. The enclosure is 4' long. the woody stuff is real and all the plants artificial. As you can see, I changed it a bit (I call it enrichment), added some vertical lianas and horizontal perches and I also changed the snakes. These two are about a metre long.
I put those vertical lianas there because I thought it would look cool but surprise, this girl adopted them for perching, she camped on them like that for 4 days then she went to another spot. Exciting?
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