PilbaraPythons
Very Well-Known Member
boa said:
Albino blackheads (new pictures)
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Maybe we have different ideas of who are the biggest ? 
Seriously though I have spoken to a couple of the big guys and they steer clear of these places, all of them not this one in particular.
Like you I am often astounded by some of the comments, I am a very easy going guy and ordinarily wouldn't dream of saying some of the things I hear but it seems to be commonplace.
It is a shame as I usually have fun here, as I am home most of the time with a chronic back problem it is my favourite form of entertainment.
Seriously though I have spoken to a couple of the big guys and they steer clear of these places, all of them not this one in particular.Like you I am often astounded by some of the comments, I am a very easy going guy and ordinarily wouldn't dream of saying some of the things I hear but it seems to be commonplace.
It is a shame as I usually have fun here, as I am home most of the time with a chronic back problem it is my favourite form of entertainment.
I remembered -- albino tegus!
I've been trying to think of another albino that was "spontaneously" produced in captivity. like the chondro. Finally remembered. It was about 1999 when Ron St.Pierre first produced albino blue tegus, they were unknown before that. Another fellow in Florida U.S. produced them the same year, but Pierre has the bigger name so got the attention.
I realize this is pretty late in this thread, but it had been bugging me because I knew there was another reptile whose first known albino phenotype was through captive breeding.
I've been trying to think of another albino that was "spontaneously" produced in captivity. like the chondro. Finally remembered. It was about 1999 when Ron St.Pierre first produced albino blue tegus, they were unknown before that. Another fellow in Florida U.S. produced them the same year, but Pierre has the bigger name so got the attention.
I realize this is pretty late in this thread, but it had been bugging me because I knew there was another reptile whose first known albino phenotype was through captive breeding.
herptrader
Very Well-Known Member
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
The interesting thing for me that has come out of this thread is the suggestion that het's for albino may be morphologically different suggesting that in some species there may be a dominant component to what is a considered to be a recessive trait. This is the second time I have heard this reported, the first being by Gavin Bedford with his Albino Olive project.
Ref: http://www.herptrader.com.au/AlbinoOlive (See the fine print page)
If this is the case then line breeding individuals that show this trait would improve the probability of albino offspring being produced.
The interesting thing for me that has come out of this thread is the suggestion that het's for albino may be morphologically different suggesting that in some species there may be a dominant component to what is a considered to be a recessive trait. This is the second time I have heard this reported, the first being by Gavin Bedford with his Albino Olive project.
Ref: http://www.herptrader.com.au/AlbinoOlive (See the fine print page)
If this is the case then line breeding individuals that show this trait would improve the probability of albino offspring being produced.
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
I am not convinced that hets carry any visible 'hints' as to their potential. It doesn't seem to be the case and being a recessive trait I can't see why there would be any visible signs. I suppose it is possible that certain species could be more prone to this and would possibly only manifest itself in an abnormality perhaps ?
I am not convinced that hets carry any visible 'hints' as to their potential. It doesn't seem to be the case and being a recessive trait I can't see why there would be any visible signs. I suppose it is possible that certain species could be more prone to this and would possibly only manifest itself in an abnormality perhaps ?
BROWNS
Very Well-Known Member
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
OK,just a tthought,i get thousands of Asian house geckoes around my house,i'm talking heaps and heaps and they must interbreed to some degree,and with the huge numbers or say very dense population never once have i seenan albino one...like i said just another thought :idea:
OK,just a tthought,i get thousands of Asian house geckoes around my house,i'm talking heaps and heaps and they must interbreed to some degree,and with the huge numbers or say very dense population never once have i seenan albino one...like i said just another thought :idea:
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
they get eaten before you see them.. natural selection against a recessive trait maintains it only in its het form. On the odd occasion that two hets meet and do the wild thing and albinos are produced they are usually eaten as they stand out like a sore thumb. then again if they lived in the snow LOL it would become the more prominint phenotype.
Saxon
they get eaten before you see them.. natural selection against a recessive trait maintains it only in its het form. On the odd occasion that two hets meet and do the wild thing and albinos are produced they are usually eaten as they stand out like a sore thumb. then again if they lived in the snow LOL it would become the more prominint phenotype.
Saxon
BROWNS
Very Well-Known Member
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
Believe me i see thousands of geckos of all sizes and kept the tiniest ones as pets at times over the years as a youngster and yes they are cannabalistic, but i doubt an albino would stand out like a sore thumb as everything about them screams albino except the eyes and also when they blend in to the colour of a certain place they're resting on.
Yep that's the case with most wc? albinos but some such as the albino rbbs and many US albinos were wild caught at breeding size.
Believe me i see thousands of geckos of all sizes and kept the tiniest ones as pets at times over the years as a youngster and yes they are cannabalistic, but i doubt an albino would stand out like a sore thumb as everything about them screams albino except the eyes and also when they blend in to the colour of a certain place they're resting on.
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
In the case of the Asian House gecko for instance as they are very pale would an albino stand out as much as say an albino carpet ? I know the answer sounds obvious but my point is that with an animal that is very pale anyway an albino is probably only slightly more likely to be picked off early.
I guess I repeated much of what you said, the posts must have passed on the way in
In the case of the Asian House gecko for instance as they are very pale would an albino stand out as much as say an albino carpet ? I know the answer sounds obvious but my point is that with an animal that is very pale anyway an albino is probably only slightly more likely to be picked off early.
I guess I repeated much of what you said, the posts must have passed on the way in
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
well some form of natural selection, whether it be eaten or effects from the sun or somthing else keeps albinos rare.If the selction is removed like in a controlled environment created by us albino % can be brought up to 100%. if in some case the albinism or other recessive traits are not selected against the rate of occurance would be increased. blue eyes in humans is a good example of a recessive trait that has not been selected against or albino rats in captivity both not excatly rare but a recessive trait none the less. remember recessive traits are nearly impossible to breed out of a population.However dominant allels are very easily selected against and can be bred out very quickly.
a little to think about
Saxon
well some form of natural selection, whether it be eaten or effects from the sun or somthing else keeps albinos rare.If the selction is removed like in a controlled environment created by us albino % can be brought up to 100%. if in some case the albinism or other recessive traits are not selected against the rate of occurance would be increased. blue eyes in humans is a good example of a recessive trait that has not been selected against or albino rats in captivity both not excatly rare but a recessive trait none the less. remember recessive traits are nearly impossible to breed out of a population.However dominant allels are very easily selected against and can be bred out very quickly.
a little to think about
Saxon
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
my point is somthing must be or has in the past selected against the albino trait in the gex. but the recessive gene will still be there. just a matter of time before someone finds one or breeds one.
my point is somthing must be or has in the past selected against the albino trait in the gex. but the recessive gene will still be there. just a matter of time before someone finds one or breeds one.
geckodan
Very Well-Known Member
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
This does occur in some bird species with many mutations. Often nothing more than a pale patch of feathers. No reason at all it could not be the same for a herp ( Some examples - "Lutino" (not a true lutino) Rainbow lorikeets - hets have red streaks through the blue of the head,
Pied (piebald) cockateils - hets have a white patch behind the crest.)
This does occur in some bird species with many mutations. Often nothing more than a pale patch of feathers. No reason at all it could not be the same for a herp ( Some examples - "Lutino" (not a true lutino) Rainbow lorikeets - hets have red streaks through the blue of the head,
Pied (piebald) cockateils - hets have a white patch behind the crest.)
geckodan
Very Well-Known Member
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
I agree, most of the indicator hets occur with mutations that spread across multiple alleles. Based on this should we be led to believe that if an indicator factor was present in the Bedfords "albino" olive then it was not in fact a true albino but actually an extreme reverse piebald with multiple alleles being expressed. Did the albino olive have red eyes.? Do all true albino herps have red eyes?
I agree, most of the indicator hets occur with mutations that spread across multiple alleles. Based on this should we be led to believe that if an indicator factor was present in the Bedfords "albino" olive then it was not in fact a true albino but actually an extreme reverse piebald with multiple alleles being expressed. Did the albino olive have red eyes.? Do all true albino herps have red eyes?
herptrader
Very Well-Known Member
Re: RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
Gavin's Albino's were completely white and had red eyes and are true albinos by any definition.
I suppose the question begging for an answer here is something like: "Are some dominant traits more likely with the recessive Albino trait?"
In relation to the current Black Headed's it is the potential het offspring that are showing the morphological differences. Nothing has yet been said about the definite hets, ie the parents of the clutch photographed.
Gavin's Albino's were completely white and had red eyes and are true albinos by any definition.
I suppose the question begging for an answer here is something like: "Are some dominant traits more likely with the recessive Albino trait?"
In relation to the current Black Headed's it is the potential het offspring that are showing the morphological differences. Nothing has yet been said about the definite hets, ie the parents of the clutch photographed.
geckodan said:
geckodan
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
Thanks Judy.
I suppose without definitive DNA typing there will always be more questions than answers. Oh. wouldn't it be nice to drop a spot of blood on a test and have it come up het or not het.
Thanks Judy.
I suppose without definitive DNA typing there will always be more questions than answers. Oh. wouldn't it be nice to drop a spot of blood on a test and have it come up het or not het.
BROWNS
Very Well-Known Member
RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
I hear what you're saying Danny,doyou mean that the olive being a snow or all white could be a reversed pieballed or piballed which you say has expressed more white or albino genes?I'm sure the albino didn't have red eyes ,but reclla pic of a hatchling one and they were pink can't recall what colour the Adults eyes were.Could that also be classed as leucistic ?I've bred lutino ringnecks and yes different forms of albinism have different coloured eyes not just red.The caramel albino childreni are a good example with orange eyes.
I see your point from your first post and as you say you would thinksooner or later someone will find one which is also wat iwas getting at.
Ecactly,it even occurs in plants and have personally see a "potplant" with half albino leaf half normal.
I hear what you're saying Danny,doyou mean that the olive being a snow or all white could be a reversed pieballed or piballed which you say has expressed more white or albino genes?I'm sure the albino didn't have red eyes ,but reclla pic of a hatchling one and they were pink can't recall what colour the Adults eyes were.Could that also be classed as leucistic ?I've bred lutino ringnecks and yes different forms of albinism have different coloured eyes not just red.The caramel albino childreni are a good example with orange eyes.
herptrader
Very Well-Known Member
Re: RE: Re: RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
Actually it is Daavid (HerpTrader) - avitar a gecko
Judy connects as "trader" - avitar a mermaid (well this week at least)
Ooo Yes. A simple test would be great. Who knows such a test may not be all that far off.
Actually it is Daavid (HerpTrader) - avitar a gecko
Judy connects as "trader" - avitar a mermaid (well this week at least)
geckodan said:
Ooo Yes. A simple test would be great. Who knows such a test may not be all that far off.
geckodan
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: I remembered -- albino tegus!
Actually it is Daavid (HerpTrader) - avitar a gecko
Actually it is Daavid (HerpTrader) - avitar a gecko
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