bredli ruined now aswell

[Australis]

The main difference for the purist is that his breeding efforts affect no one down the line.On the other hand the hybrid mob (even if they are open and honest about it) will directly affect anyone looking for pure lines down the track.If each and every breeder decided to cross anything with everything then all we would end up with would be M.s.crap.

Spot on.

 

[elapid66]

nice thread give me a jag over a boring bedli any day :lol:

 

[liberty]

some say ruined i say nice, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

The main difference for the purist is that his breeding efforts affect no one down the line.On the other hand the hybrid mob (even if they are open and honest about it) will directly affect anyone looking for pure lines down the track.If each and every breeder decided to cross anything with everything then all we would end up with would be M.s.crap.

Lol Rams, that's my point mate. You have an opinion that you are sure will happen, the people 'for' have replied to that same point a heap of times with an opinion that they are sure of...

Pure lines...

Against;The main difference for the purist is that his breeding efforts affect no one down the line.On the other hand the hybrid mob (even if they are open and honest about it) will directly affect anyone looking for pure lines down the track.If each and every breeder decided to cross anything with everything then all we would end up with would be M.s.crap.

For; Purists will always have pure stock and if the bloodlines become muddy then keepers will replenish. Americans can't because the animals aren't native, right or wrong people have access to any locale animal they desire. As long as there are native reptiles in the wild, new keepers will always have pure animals made available to them..


I guess I'm not helping by having a debate over a debate...lol The only reason I commented was in response to Amazonions assumed 'spark up a debate' post (no offence Ams).

 

[ihaveherps]

Your right mate, producing trick Jags would be no more difficult than selectively breeding already established pure stock. It's all selective breeding. I also agree, the presence of the co-dom gene means the whole process is sped up. I understand why people hate hybrids but I personally put Jags in a different category to those who hybridise for the hell of it. The co-dom gene puts them in a morph category for me. I enjoy reading about other peoples projects, even if they are overseas. Others see them as just mongrels and that's cool too, opinions vary....

Just sick of reading the same flogged to death quotes from people who hate them. It almost seems that some lurk around the forums just waiting for a Jag to be posted so they can re-spark the hybrid debate. All I’m saying to those people is "I know you are passionate about your opinions, you don't like Jags, that's cool. I heard you the 40th time"....

Not directed at you either mate, I know you aren't a lurker.

Firstly, no offence taken.... all sweet.

Putting selectively bred pure stock and jags in the same boat is a huge stretch. How can you compare hand picking a pair from within a locale/sub-species to "hopefully" produce a desired outcome, with having a co-dominant gene that will display itself in F1 offspring (in a mendellian ratio of 50% of the offspring) no matter how hap-hazzardly the mate is chosen. To me the scenarios are worlds apart.

I probably come across as anti Jag, Im not. I am impressed by Jags, if there was no doubt about the purity of the original Jag, and it appeared in local collections without smuggling, I would be on them like a flash. With Jags being pure coastals (lets just play in fantasy land for a minute), they would be an exciting prospect, the crazy diversity within the sub-species would make for unlimited potential in variation. I can completely understand the excitement the hybridisers feel about Jags, I would be stoked too, unfortunately im handicapped by my values.

 

[biggie]

jags are retarded so why breed retarded animals even if they look nice there all retarded so lets line breed for retardness id like to see 1 jag that's not a hybrid please just 1 will do bet no one can because they are NOT PURE yet atleast

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

Ok Biggie, they are all retarded. lol

I'll send you a pm ihaveherps, me posting is coming accross as being directed at a few mates.

 

[liberty]

umm correct me if im wrong but dont most people line breed for a specific trait.
so how can u make the comment lets line breed for retardness that a bit of an unthought about comment when most people line breed ofr colours, and dont say they do it to keep purity lol who would buy a pure beardie most pure ones are not that crash hot looking. it is now days the red ones or yellow or whites that are hot cakes but no one seems to be jumping up and down about those. i realise that there is now mixing in species here but im focousing on the comment about line breeding

keep an open mind cheers

 

[Moreliaman]

I'm sure I made this comment about line-breeding once and people shot me down. It's nice to know I'm not the only one looking at the horrible state of our domestic dog breeds and wondering why we're gonna do that to snakes too.
On the other hand, breeding quality snakes with jags could be a way of increasing the gene pool of jags and help counter the side effects that come with it, or at least a way of trying. Not that I support it, I just see why others do it.

But all these bredli hybrids make me sad. I love the colour of bredis, but all the hybrids I've seen of them lose the colour. Like diamond x bredli, from what I've seen, has the diamond colours and the bredli patterns. If you could come up with a hybrid that was bredli colours but diamond patterns, I might be tempted, but basically they're breeding the colour out of bredlis.

Sorry squish, i was being slightly sarcastic about people who are unhappy about snakes being crossed, but quite happy to go out and buy a pedigree dog/cat or hybrid bird or fish

 

[Squish]

The main difference for the purist is that his breeding efforts affect no one down the line.On the other hand the hybrid mob (even if they are open and honest about it) will directly affect anyone looking for pure lines down the track.If each and every breeder decided to cross anything with everything then all we would end up with would be M.s.crap.

Dogs have been cross-bred then in-bred then cross-bred so many times over, and we still have distinctive pedigree animals, they aren't all mixed in to each other. It's possible for domestic hybrids to exist alongside purebred animals and still maintain their pedigree.

 

[under_dog]

thats gorgeous! i want one!!!

 

[Diamondback]

They're awesome! I love the high yellow ones.

While I don't agree with cross breeding any old thing, is it really that difficult to maintain pure lines outside of the crosses? A lot of you argue that it is stupid to breed these snakes just because they look good but the majority of keepers that I know (which is a fair few by this point) state aesthetics as a main reason for keeping snakes in particular; a lot of people rarely handle their snakes, some even advise against doing it a lot, therefore making their animals more like fish in an aquarium or birds in a cage. Looks are a big selling point!

Don't get me wrong, I love my bredli hatchie (he's my first), but give me the chance to also get my hands on a nice jag or (to be extreme) a nice Killer Clown Ball and I'd jump at the chance! Haha!

Also, isn't the breeding for looks issue kinda moot? A lot of you jump up and down about breeding these guys for looks but many in the herp community will see a nice feature in a pure bred snake and breed the crap out of it until it breeds true!

There'll always be people that are for and against. Stupid to ague really because, within (and outside of) the law, people will just do what they want anyhow.