I'm reaching for my flame suit.

[Australis]

2. Venomoiding of snakes is somewhat of a medical breakthrough - an area still to be explored. How many herps died under Ray's knife before he started to get it right? Who knows? As with any breakthrough operation - plenty of animals/people die whilst doctors practice. Would it matter less if the animals died under the knife of a vet?

Cheers,
Austy.

What Hoser is doing is no Breakthrough (although he may claim it is), and its sick to think that animals have died as you say "before he started to get it right?".

"plenty of animals/people die whilst doctors practice"

Well, thats not so much the case, your average joe doesnt "practice" on humans before maybe becoming a Doctor, Hoser is neither a Doctor or a Vet by any stretch, so why didnt he get the animals voided by a skilled Vet, instead of doing it himself.....

Clearly the ARP was able to get animals Voided by a Skilled Vet, yet Hoser on the other hand would rather void them himself it seems, why?

Maybe no Vet in there right mind would be willing to risk voiding animals to be placed around random kids necks, heads, shoulders.... risky indeed.

To trust the word of Hoser someone who isnt a trained vet that these animals are "safe" is a big ask, what if he made a amatuer mistake with the voiding? rendering one of these animals capable of producing and injecting venom, even a tiny amount into the neck of a small child......

The link "Nome" posted of one of his shows was shocking indeed, regardless of what you may think about Ray Hoser it not hard to see that his shows are over the top with very young children with Venomous snakes hanging from them.

What Hoser does with the Voids and how he created them, in no way could be compared to the ARP previous voided animals IMO. i dont like the ideal of voids in any respect, but surely its better the ARP way, than the Hoser .... way

Hosers Voids:

Created in a cruel primative manner by a layman, then used as a cheap thrill in his shows.

ARP (previous voids):

Voided by skilled Vet, glands not removed, used for safe display in open pits.

 

[MrBredli]

Hosers Voids:

Created in a cruel primative manner by a layman, then used as a cheap thrill in his shows.

ARP (previous voids):

Voided by skilled Vet, glands not removed, used for safe display in open pits.

Touché

 

[buck]

I don't have a problem with a certified vet conducting such an operation (as described by John). If Ray had gone to the same vet, and that same vet had performed exactly the same operation as performed at the ARP, on his snakes, then i wouldn't mind it at all. I think *deep breath* that Ray actually has a point when he says that the snakes are less stressed as they no longer need to be hooked and tailed which is a good thing seeing as they are handled so often. However, he certainly overdoes the point (and i'm not surprised as it is the only logical one he has), and to say that anyone who does use a hook on a hot is being cruel is just ridiculous.

In any case, it doesn't matter how many times you tell a young child not to try this at home, if they see you freehandling a Black Snake like it is a python, they are quite likely to attempt it if they ever come across one at home.

Perfoming this procedure on snakes that live in pits to protect idiots who decide to jump in is a fair reason to have it done. Doing it so you can pass them around to anybody and everybody, to inflate your ego, and to inflate your bank balance are not acceptable reasons in my opinion.

These comments are based on a certified vet performing the procedure. Hoser's hack jobs just makes it so far more worse..

Totally agree with everything written above.

 

[Varanus1]

I never stated that you did bag him simone, and i'm sorry if it came across that way. I was merely questioning one point in particular (can we still be friends?).

MrB, I can tell you now that I do not know a single parent who does not tell their children to leave all snakes alone, period.

Thank you Moosenoose for providing some credible evidence about Rays shows giving people the wrong impressions about wild snakes, I really appreciate it.

I guess its time for me to withdraw my statement!

Cheers guys,
Trent

 

[Oxyuranus microlepid]

I'll answer each seperately

No, they are still highly venomous animals. It was just a few animals in some outside pits that we were talking about. This is fully explaned by John Weigel in his post which can be found 4 prior to yours.

i was there just a short while ago, there were exactly 4 copperheads, and 3 tigers in OUTDOOR pits

AS WELL AS INDOORS, there was an oxyuranus microlepidotus female, a mff trio of eyelash vipers, a death adder, an unknown (to me) blue and white striped viper, and a king brown male, also a DWARF king brown male, a king cobra, night tiger, rhino viper, mangrove snake, and 2 other vens i do not know the name of.


???

 

[PremierPythons]

I don't need to meet the man to know that I don't care for him at all - he voids venomous snakes and I absolutely loathe the practice on every level so that's good enough for me...

 

[MrBredli]

MrB, I can tell you now that I do not know a single parent who does not tell their children to leave all snakes alone, period.

Yeah, same goes for kids playing on the road. But if they see their parents playing on the road, they'll run straight out there with them no matter how many times they've been told not to. This is kids we're talking about..

 

[JJS.]

Comparing it to tail docking, etc? Does that mean circumcision is gonna be banned? Same sort of thing.......

 

[JJS.]

Couldnt resist

 

[Inkslinger]

So why do Elapids have the right to live free and not captivity and not pythons, lizards, Turtles, Parrots, Finches and all the other native animals and birds that we in Victoria keep.
And why only Victoria. Are we in some way inferior to the rest of the country??

You misunderstood I was not having a go a Ven Keepers have kept them myself, but the argument put forth that they have a right to live as vens which means free, not caged, dont get me wrong Im all for keeping of our native fauna just having a go at the silliness of the argument put forth.

As to other states I cannot comment because I have not seen first hand vens are kept there, maybe I have only seen poor examples of keeping here, but those I have seen leave a lot to be desired in terms of safety anyway.

 

[Inkslinger]

Comparing it to tail docking, etc? Does that mean circumcision is gonna be banned? Same sort of thing.......

Not banned but most Pedeatrics Doctors refuse to perfom the operation now.

 

[Inkslinger]

But in years to come that same kid will probably head off and bang a metal bar through the top of it anyway all in the name of fashion! It can't hurt all that much! Nobody remembers having it happen to them!

Vens probably dont remember either dosnt make it right as to banging a metal bar through it doesnt compare pain wise and is done by choice.

Comes down to Shouldnt be done at all whether by Vet Back-yarder or the bloody milk man it is wrong what ever the arguments are.

 

[Hetty]

+I don't think what he does should be justified under any circumstances. Just because there are worse things it doesn't mean what he does is okay.

 

[smith84]

i believe that you should respect the creature reguardless. mutilation is not the answer. antivenoms are available for self administration by ven keepers, i havnt any ven snakes but thus is my belief

 

[raptor]

I don't need to meet the man to know that I don't care for him at all - he voids venomous snakes and I absolutely loathe the practice on every level so that's good enough for me...

Hopefully I'm not too far out of line here (seeing that you haven't said anything to the contrary) but this is exactly the type of comment that led me to post originally. Does this mean that you'd petition to have ARP's vet deregistered? Have ARP closed down for commissioning the proceedure in the first place? If not, WHY not? If you disagree with Hoser's USE of the animals once voided, fair enough, I disagree with it myself, but to disagree with him voiding or keeping voids then that loathing has to be across the board, otherwise it's manifestly unfair.

Elapid88, maybe inkslinger's comment applies to how ridiculously easy it is in Vic to keep vens: Any 18 year old who's payed the right amount of $$$ can go & buy one, with next to no idea of how to control it. I've seen any number of examples of it over the years. Another instance: an 18yr old (again!) with a basic licence and absolutely no idea of how to keep as much as a bluetongue is legally entitled to go out & buy himself a 6 foot lacie, capable of at least as many, if not more, horrific injuries than the average ven.

However, that begs the point. It appears that, no matter what logical arguments are put forward, the vast majority of posts have been, & will continue to be, "I hate Ray Hoser 'cos he voids snakes", on a purely emotional basis, & with no further regard for who else has, did, will, or is continuing to do to this day. I'm FAR from being a fan of the practice myself, but these emotional reactions are NO different to the ones put forward by cockies for decades: "The best snake's a dead snake 'cos they kill my livestock".Complain about the practice, & I'll agree with you, on any number of levels. But at least be consistant in your condemnation.