Lies,Defamation,and Bawling

[womas4me]

Browns, there are no restrictions on collecting the sw woma. Due to their rarity you would need someone bankrolling you for the amount of time it may take to find some IMO.

As for collecting on Aboriginal land, i have approached several but all wanted thousands of dollars for the privelige.

Oenpellis. Taking just a few doesnt give you much genetic diversty at the end of the day. Before too long they would all be related.

 

[womas4me]

Brodie, who's saying to take them all. Some could be collected, bred from in situ and released, keeping only the hatchlings.

How many adders have you put into captivity or collected? Shouldn't they have the same right's as Oenpellis. If done right, and thats a big IF, it would be a great thing for aussie herpers.

 

[Brodie]

That could easily be done.... However, why do we deserve too keep them? Most reptile keepers are complete twats and dont deserve too keep them. Sure, there are a few people like yourself who would actually look after them properly.. But what is the point? Why take something out of the wild for the bloody pet trade?

Adders are a lot more common than Oenpellis, and their populations is hundreds of times higher. The adders I collect are for scientific research, some of which may end up saving lives one day. I am not allowed too discuss the specifics of the research, however, you will find I would only ever take something out of the wild if I had a very good reason.

If Oenpellis were not as rare, and collecting them could save lives.. Well, I would do it, or at least agree with someone else doing it!

I have/will never collect from the wild for the pet trade

 

[NoOne]

I would prefer to see reptiles like Oenpellis left in the wild and never come into captivity, why do we have to know everything about everything, it makes them a far more special animal that we don't know much about them, not that we would learn much about them by keeping them. If we want to know about them study them in the wild.
I felt the same about RSP, the areas they are found have no human contact but we still felt the need to " save" them.

 

[BROWNS]

I know exactly where you're coming from duga,although for animals like the SW woma which are obviously nearly wiped out so collection and a captive breeding programme would make perfect sense and would save the species from extinction in the vvery near future.

Oenpelis don't deserve to be locked up in a cage and neither do gtp,laceys or perenties etc but they are and i'm talking collection and breeding mainly for zoos to be able to display a very different and reasonably rare Australian python!

 

[BROWNS]

And as for gtp we have quite a few here in Oz and are allowed to keep them but none that are kept are pure Australian specimens,so with the anti exotic laws etc along with people who are purists someone should be able to collect some for a captive breeding programme which would work best breeding adults,releasing them back to the wild even in the same spot they were collected and then breed from their offspring and there would be no change to the numbers of gtp in the wild.

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

no animal"deserves' to be locked up in a cage..i spose its politics now

 

[womas4me]

If it doesnt happen legally it will happen illegally. Probably already is.

 

[BROWNS]

Not sure if there were even licences when Krauss bred the oenpelis.....that's not the point what happened to the offspring and parents.He did put an article about breding them in the Herpetafauna magazine.I guess to some finding out how these animals behave and breed is as exciting to others as finding a new species would be.....

 

[womas4me]

Funny how times change. These guys go down as pioneers, if it happened today they'd be criminals.

 

[BROWNS]

Yeah seems only a few elite can get away with what they want these days.....look at Irwin,i saw a doco yesterday where he was up the Cape dpotting crocs etc and was looking for a specific monitor...he found one which apparently swims in the sea and can drink salt water which isn't a rusty monitor or spotted tree"scalaris" but a cross between the two which is becoming rare and he was allowed to collect them for captive breeding and research,J Weigel with the rsp's and perenties and some the offspring went to the bloody US....can't tell me that's not money orientated rather than the concern for the animal and if they went anywhere they should've gone to Aussie zoos or reptile parks.Why can he export and nobody else other than zoos can.I reckon it stinks!!!

 

[PilbaraPythons]

If my memory serves me correctly, The original Oeipelli's held by Peter Krauss were actually held on licence as carpet pythons and were confiscated.

 

[indicus]

Peter Krauss, did breed Oenpelis legally....When the adults were originally collected, the NT law at the time deamed all snakes to be Vermin...whos bred them since?, zoo or private?....These snakes are only known from a restricted range....It's because of this i believe it's one of the most important snakes to try and captivily breed.....If a natural disaster was to occur, what ever it maybe?, they may find it very hard to recover.....

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Hey Indicus
Why don?t you ask Krauss the full story since you talk to him? My understanding is that many years ago he temporally lost his licence and had to give them up; hence they ended up back in the N.T.

 

[NCHERPS]

And as for gtp we have quite a few here in Oz and are allowed to keep them but none that are kept are pure Australian specimens,so with the anti exotic laws etc along with people who are purists someone should be able to collect some for a captive breeding programme which would work best breeding adults,releasing them back to the wild even in the same spot they were collected and then breed from their offspring and there would be no change to the numbers of gtp in the wild.

I know where your coming from, and sounds plausable in theory, but it wouldn't be allowed to happen in my opinion.
It can take 3 years or more to breed wild caught snakes, and during that time the snakes would be acclimatised to a captive enviroment and feeding regime.

I thought there were a couple of people in Australia who still had true Aussies, hasn't Graham Gow got some? And Steve Irwin(or Peter Buckley!) :wink:

Ideally, if the QLD NPWS allowed a quota system where say 25 a year were removed and balloted off to experienced herps at a price, in maybe 10 years there may be enough being captively bred to ensure that it wouldn't make it financially viable for the illegal trade to continue.
WAKE UP Neil !! LOL!
I know it will never happen, but without dreams life would be dull ! LOL!

 

[PilbaraPythons]

One thing that I found extremely interesting is the full story on the discovery and following capture of the first described specimen. Graeme Gow told me this story many years ago when I was staying at his house. I remember thinking, how cool this story was and how it should be written down for everybody to enjoy. I have on many occasions told him that this should be done but so far it hasn?t. I should go back up with a tape recorder and ask him to tell it again.

 

[indicus]

Thats true Pilbara.......

 

[bigguy]

Speaking of natual disasters wiping out species, well isn't one hitting the NT at the moment. If young Oenpelies eat frogs we may have seen the last of them forever. What a shame some were not collected prior to the toad invasion. If more was know about this species and its dietary intake in the wild, we may have prevented this species being wiped out by collecting for breeding programs.

It is known the RSP hatchlings love frogs, so when the toads reach the Kimberlies, byebye to them as well. At least there is a viable population now in captivity.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

What a huge and scary statement Bob. Can there ever be a more important reason to establish a captive breeding program immediately?

 

[womas4me]

It is already happening with mulgas in toad effected areas of Kakadu i believe.

Valid point for both species.