I hit the link within a minute of receiving the email- and they were all GONESKIS
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Reduced Pattern Morph Carpets
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I hit the link within a minute of receiving the email- and they were all GONESKIS
tomcat88
Active Member
this is incorrect.. the first jags were pure mcdowelli and later crossed with IJ. and if you want to know some more facts the yearlings RPM''s from SXR are pure mcdowelli and the line has been blood / DNA tested to prove thisbut when have facts got in the way of some ill informed witch hunt on here?
all the whinging and whining about these issues and these animals in this thread and other threads just reeks of jealousy, uninformed pack mentality hysteria and sour grapes in my opinion..
heres a pic (no not mine but I wish) of one of the 'ugly mongrel hybrid so and so' animals some of you hate so much... and when I look at how beautiful it is I guess I can see why some people are so jealous.. an no Im not interested in some argument so dont even bother... have a nice day
hmm seemed to be proven wrong lol, oh well win some lose some. that animal is BEAUTIFUL
Cheyne_Jones
Well-Known Member
this is incorrect.. the first jags were pure mcdowelli and later crossed with IJ. and if you want to know some more facts the yearlings RPM''s from SXR are pure mcdowelli and the line has been blood / DNA tested to prove this
all the whinging and whining about these issues and these animals in this thread and other threads just reeks of jealousy, uninformed pack mentality hysteria and sour grapes in my opinion..
heres a pic (no not mine but I wish) of one of the 'ugly mongrel hybrid so and so' animals some of you hate so much... and when I look at how beautiful it is I guess I can see why some people are so jealous.. an no Im not interested in some argument so dont even bother... have a nice day
Hey there Colin,
This is interesting that they are DNA tested to prove their provenance, I always thought that all M.spilota were identical on a DNA level with the only real difference being the colour, pattern and size depending on locale. I thought this was the main reason that a great deal of people hate the fact that they are split?
Maybe someone that is right up on the science of this can let me know if I am wrong or right on this one?
BROWNS
Very Well-Known Member
I agree and don't think they can tell a jag apart from a coastal or jungle etc and can be found out by dna testing as all morelia spilota and sub species are the same.Just a good way of making out they aren't what most of us know they are.Colin is also correct about the first jag which if you follow things on Morela Pythons.com explains a lot about jags.
I am of the understanding the jags have been in Oz for many years now and the ones advertised recently were crossed with md's and jungles and you can see the influence in many of the animals advertised.Remember jags are not all created equal and as I mentioned earlier we usually only see the nicest examples and the average looking jags don't get shown and again with all the crossbreeding is how they produce some of the exceptional looking jags but if they have neuro problems no matter how nice they are I wouldn't want one nor should anyone else as it then introduces the neuro problems into the hobby which I'm sure nobody wants to have happen albeit too late as they're here and being bred by more than just one person or reptile breeders.
I am of the understanding the jags have been in Oz for many years now and the ones advertised recently were crossed with md's and jungles and you can see the influence in many of the animals advertised.Remember jags are not all created equal and as I mentioned earlier we usually only see the nicest examples and the average looking jags don't get shown and again with all the crossbreeding is how they produce some of the exceptional looking jags but if they have neuro problems no matter how nice they are I wouldn't want one nor should anyone else as it then introduces the neuro problems into the hobby which I'm sure nobody wants to have happen albeit too late as they're here and being bred by more than just one person or reptile breeders.
S
solar 17
Guest
Simple
Simple solution ; if you don't like em, don't buy em, move on .......solar 17 [Baden]
Simple solution ; if you don't like em, don't buy em, move on .......solar 17 [Baden]
Sturdy
Very Well-Known Member
I dont think SXR would sell an animal with the risk of having Nuro problems....
that would be stupid for business.....
that would be stupid for business.....
i think that's right CJ, which makes it even more suss when claims about "DNA proof" go into the marketing campaign. if you had produced them why do you need DNA proof before you sell any if it was available anyway? did we get "DNA proof" with albino Darwins, why prepare it now?
that's like a well known GTP "breeder" sending newspapers OS to have photos of hatchies taken with just to "prove" he bred some showing an aussie newspaper underneath. you only have an alibi prepared if you know things aren't kosher.
i'd just be happy for people to call them jags and stop all the beating about the bush. everyone knows where they came from, and like gtp's customs, aqis, DECC and every other wildlife authority have turned a blind eye to it. so why continue with this RPM rubbish? buy a jag if you want one, don't buy one if you don't.
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BROWNS
Very Well-Known Member
I like them no doubts about that,how couldn't you with stunning animals like the ones posted and the jigsaw jungle jag etc that there was a thread about recently and take a look on moreliapythons.com in the morphs section.Funny thing is I can't recall seeing a jag posted on there that wasn't a hot looking animal.
With the amount of quality animals being bred in Oz now there are several lines of genetically proven animal and am sure someone will eventually produce animals very similar to jags with the same mode of inheritence.Also this is the first time I've heard that all jags are affected neurologically in some way and had always thought only some jags,not all have neuro problems and that's coming from someone experienced with jags,it's a shame,I'd love to see a leucistic carpet,all white with blue eyes would look awesome.
As Solar said if you don't like them don't buy them, however it is a relevant topic as the introduction of these animals into our herp scene has the potential of possibly messing up many animals and bloodlines if they get crossed with all sorts of morelia.I bet someone has tried producing jagondros etc encouraging hybridising,just a thought!
On another note I would love to see albino bhp's here in Oz,they're a gorgeous looking python and having axanthics here already we would be seeing snow bhp's yet still remaining pure animals.
With the amount of quality animals being bred in Oz now there are several lines of genetically proven animal and am sure someone will eventually produce animals very similar to jags with the same mode of inheritence.Also this is the first time I've heard that all jags are affected neurologically in some way and had always thought only some jags,not all have neuro problems and that's coming from someone experienced with jags,it's a shame,I'd love to see a leucistic carpet,all white with blue eyes would look awesome.
As Solar said if you don't like them don't buy them, however it is a relevant topic as the introduction of these animals into our herp scene has the potential of possibly messing up many animals and bloodlines if they get crossed with all sorts of morelia.I bet someone has tried producing jagondros etc encouraging hybridising,just a thought!
On another note I would love to see albino bhp's here in Oz,they're a gorgeous looking python and having axanthics here already we would be seeing snow bhp's yet still remaining pure animals.
Cheyne_Jones
Well-Known Member
Whats gunna happen when someone's jag escapes and starts spreading all those wonderfull neuro issues through our wild populations? Being native to our country it will happen eventually...
Sturdy
Very Well-Known Member
That would be a slim chance... Captive animals dont have the antibodies to deal with the parasite load that would come with living in the bush... plus if its so called neuro problems are so hectic as everyone keeps flogging a dead horse about.. then i dont see them last long at all.
browns, i dont think we have to worry TOO much about all the lines getting muddied. yes there is a risk that alot of them will. But threads like this have proven that there are alot of australian breaders that care too much about purity in species to cross breed. i think down the track if things get bad, it may be necessary to buy from a reputable breeder to ensure you are getting a pure jungle, coastal or whatever.
also, does it really matter if a coastal was once bred to a md or a diamond 10 gens ago? i personally would still call it a pure coastal. afterall, surely there must be a large population of the coastals and diamonds that are intergrades and thought to be pure in the hobby?
BROWNS
Very Well-Known Member
Yes but there's a difference between naturally occuring intergrades and breeding a coastal with a diamond,one is natural the other a deliberate cross of 2 differing sub species.Port Mac intergrades etc aren't the only intergrades there's jungle coastal intergrades,stimsons maculosa intergrades and many more but when the term intergrade is mentioned most times it's the nnaturally occuring port mac,Kempsey etc intergrades.I don't agree with what you say with a coastal being bred to a diamond 10 generations ago the end result will not be pure coastals,they would still have diamond influence!
surely itd be worse lieing and getting sprung.
im still not so sure they are jags but iguess only time will tell
im curious. if someone was to just come straight out with a jag, could the authorities do anything about it? i mean can they dna test to prove whether a coastal is native to australia or not? and if they cant, how can they say for sure that its an import (even though obviously it would be). yes the gene is incredibly rare ive heard, but is it impossible that two normal coastals bred together here in australia could produce the same jag mutation? maybe one in a million, but not impossible?
i guess the same thing happened with native and non native gtp's ?
personally i think, jags are here, to stay. the only question is how openly they're produced and sold in the future,
and browns, yeah i agree with what your saying.
im still not so sure they are jags but iguess only time will tell
im curious. if someone was to just come straight out with a jag, could the authorities do anything about it? i mean can they dna test to prove whether a coastal is native to australia or not? and if they cant, how can they say for sure that its an import (even though obviously it would be). yes the gene is incredibly rare ive heard, but is it impossible that two normal coastals bred together here in australia could produce the same jag mutation? maybe one in a million, but not impossible?
i guess the same thing happened with native and non native gtp's ?
personally i think, jags are here, to stay. the only question is how openly they're produced and sold in the future,
and browns, yeah i agree with what your saying.
Cheyne_Jones
Well-Known Member
The way I see it, if corn snakes can make a go of it here in the wild why cant a Jag? You cant guarantee every escapee will die!
These are the reasons we have rules to abide by as citizens and members of a hobby, if a few choose not to follow the rules who knows what the outcome will be until it happens...
No use turning around in 5 generations and saying wish they hadn't have done that...
Sturdy
Very Well-Known Member
Other than rumours of corn snake populations in AUS, what evidence do you have that support this theory, Also do you know of the % of recently released exotics onto australian soil to make the assumption of a stable population to occur.
JasonL
Almost Legendary
All the other feral animals that call Australia home?
ShnakeyGirl
Well-Known Member
Hi Sturdy, if you go to the NSW Parks and Wildlife Service page and search for Corn Snakes, it actually returns that there have been two instances where Corn Snakes have been found in and around the Gosford area on the Central Coast. While this doesn't constitute a wild population, perhaps they are surviving in the wild after all.
Though, due to the area, maybe they did a runner from the Reptile Park
BROWNS
Very Well-Known Member
They aren't rumours,it's been mentioned by relocaers many many times in Sydney from memory?It does happen and there'd be quite a few people who've had herps escape who's to say if a jag escaped at the right time of year for breeding,it could happen however it should eventually be bred out or corrected by nature in time.There are places like Florida that have many established exotics in the wild.Guam with bts,we also have populations of red eared sliders so as said it does happen.
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