Trivial Disputes.... Native vs Endemic...

[waruikazi]

You see herein lies the problem. I don't count a continent as a specific area.

There may be a large area that Greys do not occur in. However, the definition of endemic states that it must occur only in a specific area. It does not state that the species must cover all of the area entirely, but it must not occur outside of that area.

If the area we are referring to is Australia, then they would be classified as endemic.

Disclaimer: I only think all of the above, but do not know..could certainly be wrong.

 

[xxMelissaxx]

Aha! But is it Endemic to Queensland???

Yes it is.

However, depending on the context, I think they may be able to correctly be labeled as endemic to Australia also?

 

[-Peter]

Morelia spilota is a pandemic species native to Australian Papua New Guinea and Western Papua. Morelia spilota spilota is an endemic subspecies native to Eastern NSW

 

[xxMelissaxx]

You see herein lies the problem. I don't count a continent as a specific area.

That was where I was initially confused also, and as you do, I thought that the area had to be relatively small and specific.

However, I read a journal article yesterday that was referring to a specific plant species and it was stated that it is endemic to the Southern Hemisphere..

 

[waruikazi]

Yes it is.

However, depending on the context, I think they may be able to correctly be labeled as endemic to Australia also?

I think i have a silver bullet for this argument. Native i think is the most correct term to describe the Northern Rainforest Golden Mained Marmoset Bettong in the context or Queensland, whereas Endemic is the most correct term in the context of North Queensland.

Morelia spilota is a pandemic species native to Australian Papua New Guinea and Western Papua. Morelia spilota spilota is an endemic subspecies native to Eastern NSW

BOoYa! Peter comes with a terminoligy smack down with words no one ever knew could be used like that!

 

[waruikazi]

That was where I was initially confused also, and as you do, I thought that the area had to be relatively small and specific.

However, I read a journal article yesterday that was referring to a specific plant species and it was stated that it is endemic to the Southern Hemisphere..

in light of Peter's Smackdown response, i'm gonna call your journal on it's terminology and call that plant 'pandemic!'

 

[slim6y]

I think i have a silver bullet for this argument. Native i think is the most correct term to describe the Northern Rainforest Golden Mained Marmoset Bettong in the context or Queensland, whereas Endemic is the most correct term in the context of North Queensland.


B I N G O W A S H I S N A M E O

 

[Darlyn]

I think that the two words are not mutually exclusive so in some cases both can be used and be the correct terminology.
Depends how pedantic one wants to be.

 

[xxMelissaxx]

I agree with you waruikazi, and I don't think either are incorrect.

I work with a research student that I have engaged in many trivial disputes..ha, so I'll see if he can define things a little more specifically for me.

I think that the two words are not mutually exclusive so in some cases both can be used and be the correct terminology.
Depends how pedantic one wants to be.

I agree with the above - I think that a species can be defined with multiple terms, and still be correct with each one to an extent. Eg. an endemic species is also native to that area etc.

 

[xxMelissaxx]

in light of Peter's Smackdown response, i'm gonna call your journal on it's terminology and call that plant 'pandemic!'

...but does the word 'pandemic' convey the fact that the species only occurs in the Southern Hemisphere? If the aim was to place emphasis on this fact, then I can see how the use of 'endemic' would be appropriate..

 

[grimbeny]

The word endemic does not specify how small a region must be for it to be considered an area. All multicelluar animals that are known to science are endemic to the planet earth.

 

[waruikazi]

The word endemic does not specify how small a region must be for it to be considered an area. All multicelluar animals that are known to science are endemic to the planet earth.

But the word endemic does specify that the area must be specific!

So i guess the real trivial dispute is what does specific specify?

 

[xxMelissaxx]

But the word endemic does specify that the area must be specific!

So i guess the real trivial dispute is what does specific specify?

A country, continent or region is a specific area as it is defined and distinguished from other such areas.

 

[waruikazi]

A country, continent or region is a specific area as it is defined and distinguished from other such areas.

Right! So, with the above in mind, in the case of the Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur that can only be found ontop of the highest peaks of Mt Thebarton, which is the correct term?

The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is native to Australia.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is endemic to Australia.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is native to Mt Thebarton.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is endemic to Mt Thebarton.

 

[xxMelissaxx]

Right! So, with the above in mind, in the case of the Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur that can only be found ontop of the highest peaks of Mt Thebarton, which is the correct term?

The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is native to Australia.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is endemic to Australia.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is native to Mt Thebarton.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is endemic to Mt Thebarton.

Now we're getting down to business!

Technically, I think all of the above are correct. I can see how some are more specific than others, and perhaps also more accurate.

I guess it really depends on the context, and what is being discussed. I imagine all of the above examples could be used appropriately in different writings.

I would personally use the more specific examples that refer directly to Mt Thebarton. This does not mean that by definition the others are not correct though.

 

[waruikazi]

Hrrmmm right.

So i guess the only definitive difference between 'native' and 'endemic' is the spelling and that 'endemic' is mutually exclusive whereas 'native' is not?

 

[xxMelissaxx]

Appears so, but really, I don't know enough to state it for a fact.

I have never had to use either word in an academic context, so essentially, I am just picking apart quite basic definitions of the words. Obviously, things may have been omitted from these definitions and that may change things.

Based on what I know anyway, it's my best guess.

 

[Sock Puppet]

Right! So, with the above in mind, in the case of the Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur that can only be found ontop of the highest peaks of Mt Thebarton, which is the correct term?

The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is native to Australia.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is endemic to Australia.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is native to Mt Thebarton.
The Purple Hooded Brown Tree Banded Limur is endemic to Mt Thebarton.

I would say points 1 & 4 would be the correct terminology.
For example corroboree frogs are a native Aussie frog endemic to the alpine region.

 

[slim6y]

I would say points 1 & 4 would be the correct terminology.
For example corroboree frogs are a native Aussie frog endemic to the alpine region.

This is exactly as I would see it (+1 seems to be what the others would say here)

 

[-Peter]

I would say points 1 & 4 would be the correct terminology.
For example corroboree frogs are a native Aussie frog endemic to the alpine region.

Basically, just a reductionist approach to my earlier post.