some elapid picts

[smacdonald]

Had another look at demansia pics ....number one is not a lesser black ,but a marble-headed (olivacea)
its got the line across the snout and has a coma below its eye .
still saying number two is the greater black whip snake ....

Number 1 is almost correct - it's no longer a marble-headed whipsnake. It's one of the newly described species. If you've got the second edition of A complete guide to reptiles of Australia, have a look in the appendix.

Number 2 keyed out to Demansia vestigiata (based on ventral scale count), but a friend of mine thinks it looks more like D. papuensis.


Stewart

 

[redbellybite]

so your ventral count on number two was(DV) 165-197?.....looks like a DP(but count is obviously bigger) but if you did a full count it possibly is a DV...so stewart when did it stop being calld a Demansia olivacea?..just recently ?

 

[moosenoose]

Urrrgh where are the pics???? :lol:

I posted one of these into the May Competition, but it deserve a spot on this thread IMO. More pics, less chin-waggin' folks!

Did I post this one before??? Beats me My young Lowlands Copperhead

 

[Sturdy]

nice copper heads moose i wana get some soon.

 

[smacdonald]

so your ventral count on number two was(DV) 165-197?.....looks like a DP(but count is obviously bigger) but if you did a full count it possibly is a DV...so stewart when did it stop being calld a Demansia olivacea?..just recently ?

The black whipsnake had a ventral scale count of 180, putting it well into D. vestigiata range.

Demansia torquata and D. olivacea were redefined in 2007:

Shea, Glenn M. and Scanlon, John D. (2007) Revision of the small tropical whipsnakes previously referred to Demansia olivacea (Gray, 1842) and Demansia torquata (Günther, 1862) (Squamata: Elapidae). Records of the Australian Museum, 59:117-142.


Stewart

 

[redbellybite]

well stewart,what exactly is number 1 then?
and I wouldnt have called number two a DV going by picture ...so yeah everytime you think ya might just know ...mother nature goes n changes it good find anyway ...very interesting and confusing at the same time ...

 

[smacdonald]

Demansia quaesitor. This animal was found under a slab of sandstone on a fauna survey up near Mt Isa.

Same animal, different photographer:



Stewart

 

[eipper]

Were the anterior ventrals black edged in the second snake?

What locality, was it in the overlap zone of both species? I get a feeling that there are more species within pssamophis, vestigiata and paps yet to be described.

The ventral number along with the subcaudal counts are meant to be pretty good indicators, as presently defined. But the Head shape and lack of dark pigment (less a few flecks) suggest a pap.


(I did know what the first one was too, I got called for spoiling it last time)

Cheers,
Scott

 

[smacdonald]

Don't worry Scott, I know you knew!

I can't remember the colour of the ventrals. It was up north of Mt Isa. Do you have a PDF of Shea's article splitting D. atra? I don't have a copy of it.


Stewart

 

[waruikazi]

Demansia quaesitor. This animal was found under a slab of sandstone on a fauna survey up near Mt Isa.

Same animal, different photographer:



Stewart

looks alotr different to a quaesetor i found in hodgson downs area.

 

[snakes_666]

Some of mine

 

[wiz-fiz]

what is that snakes 666? i haven't ever seen anything like it.


Will

 

[smacdonald]

looks alotr different to a quaesetor i found in hodgson downs area.

I think they look pretty similar, the animal I found just had markings that were less distinct.

From the original article:

Geographic variation. Within the main body of the distribution, head colour changes gradually from bluish in the east to more orange in the west, with a concurrent decrease in expression of dark markings on the head dorsum. Further, the dark nape band is narrower in the west, its anterior margin lying further posterior to the parietals.

Stewart

 

[redbellybite]

Ok as I am not fully up on the genus of all snakes and have limited knowledge in this field ...so its always been to my understanding that the genus 'PSEUDONAJA" *guttata *modesta*textilis*ingrami*nuchalis...correct? and that the genus 'DEMANSIA" is different to the 'PSEUDONAJA"....so when I was looking up the species that stewart had found ...when I typed in demansia ...it came up with this ...(copied from google)
Scientific Name: Demansia textilis
A very common snake of mainly inland Australia which can grow quite large. Browns of nearly two metres have been seen in Western Victoria. It is very venomous.
The brown snake is approximately 1.5 metres long, and is one of Australia's more deadly creatures. They have venom which can cause death to humans relatively quickly if left untreated. Brown snakes up to 2.3 metres have been recorded in Australia.
They feed on small creatures, such as mice and rats, small birds, lizards or even other snakes. These snakes are found in Eastern Australia, however they are not found in Tasmania.
......plus this
Demansia /De·man·sia/ (de-man´se-ah) a genus of venomous snakes of the family Elapidae, including the brown snake of Australia and New Guinea.

Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.
Demansia
a genus of venomous snakes.
Demansia nuchalis affinis as for D. textilis (below). Called also dugite, spotted brown snake.

Demansia nuchalis nuchalis similar to D. textilis. Called also gwardar, western brown snake, Pseudonaja nuchalis.

Demansia olivaceae (syn. Demansia psammophis olivacea) a thin, poisonous snake up to 7 ft long. Called also black whip snake.

Demansia textilis the Australian brown snake with a powerful toxin and a willingness to attack. Envenomation is characterized by clinical signs of drowsiness, drooping of lips and eyelids, inability to swallow, labored abdominal respiration, muscle tremor, recumbency and pupillary dilatation in some cases. Called also common brown snake.
So if you guys would like to enlighten me on this ...much appreciated ...

 

[smacdonald]

At least some of the brown snakes were put in Demansia way back in around 1858, I think. They've been in Pseudonaja for a fair while. What ever source you were looking at is out of date. I can probably dig up some more info from some references at home if you're after more details.


Stewart

 

[redbellybite]

At least some of the brown snakes were put in Demansia way back in around 1858, I think. They've been in Pseudonaja for a fair while. What ever source you were looking at is out of date. I can probably dig up some more info from some references at home if you're after more details.


Stewart

cheers stewart ...was just making a point ,no wonder alot get confused as one of the sites claim to be updated as late as 2007 ...you think they wouldve changed it ...
But what ever you can scrape up that is current would be good thanks stewart

 

[eipper]

Not as a PDF mate, but I have a hard copy around here somewhere

I can try and did it up if you need it?

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Vixen]

what is that snakes 666? i haven't ever seen anything like it.


Will

I believe the reddy coloured one is a Collets.

 

[smacdonald]

I believe the reddy coloured one is a Collets.

That's right, it's a Collett's black snake. And the other one is a pale-headed snake.


Stewart

 

[wizz]

Some of mine

who found the pale-headed??? looks a bit ....nice colletti