Axanthic coastal????? pics

[disasterpiece7.0]

I agree with both trueblue and Sdaji. It could be possible that these grey coastals are axanthic or just another form and I think the only way to settle this is through multi generational breeding. Until we've got several generations worth of results we can't really say either way.

Trueblue, is the one you're reffering too a wild caught from the sunshine coast, looks a bit junglish? Think it was in a thread a while back. Female was white and black and was put with a yellow male. There was alot of "oo they're jungles!" being thrown around even though both parents were wild caught in SE QLD.

I think grey to grey has to = all grey and then if mixed with more colourful (higher yellow etc) coastals and still comes up with greys and/or B&W offspring after a few generations then it's safe to say it's axanthic but until then we can't say either way and there is no point in arguing about it.

 

[Sdaji]

sdaji. If you had seen the animal that im refering to as the only possible true axanthic coastal that ive ever seen, then im sure you would agree with me.
This animal looked nothing at all like any of the greys or other carpets that people are calling axanthic, a totally different kettle of fish. Plus as said ive bred heaps of grey coastals over the years not just seen alot of wild ones.
This leads me to belive that true axanthic coastals are indeed rare.

True axanthics have greys, that's just normal. Some have browns too due to colours coming from things other than xanthophores and erythrins. You wouldn't expect an axanthic Carpet to be stunning black and white unless there was something else going on, whatever the special one you saw was, it must have been quite exceptional, but you'd expect a true axanthic Carpet to be a pretty drab snake really, not all that spectacular, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were all over the place without people noticing, just like axanthic Black-headed Pythons.

Axanthics are common in a few species without being commonly spoken of (which I'm tactically going to avoid naming!) because in those cases they just don't look all that amazing.

All that said, I agree that we can't be sure this Carpet is axanthic, not just yet. If you want to put $20 on it for fun I'm up for it though

 

[herpkeeper]

to quote pilbara pythons ( i think any assumption based purely on visuals of a young specimen would be dispelled or otherwise when they were fully matured adults )
rob, i had seen the animal you mentioned on a number of occasions, i remember it well, i tried to buy it off him, it was a young animal, maybe 3 years tops as it was only 3 maybe 4ft long before it died.
so how can you say it was the only possible axanthic carpet you've seen ? are you going on visuals ?

 

[funcouple]

is axanthic genetic? if so, wouldnt it be best to breed this different one back to its parent and an opposite sexed sibbling to the other parent? then breed 2 of hatchlings from the matings back to the parent together?

 

[zobo]

Back from work and what a response!
I have to say i think Colin may be onto something with this;

Hypoxanthism

Yellow pigmentation is greatly reduced in the xanthophores. However, yellow pigments in the form of carotenoids may still be retained in the xanthophores. This accumulates with age and may be a major contributing factor in the overall appearance of some animals. It would be expected that red pigmentation would also be reduced in these animals. There are most likely several morphs of captive reptiles which are hypoxanthic masquerading around under other 'genetic labels'. Few herpetoculturists have access to the technology required to ascertain the exact nature of the mutations in today's collections. Fewer still would be willing to sacrifice specimens for examination! Myself included!

This snake is unlike any I have seen before and yes I have also seen and bred many coastals. It has had siblings the same colour and nomals. Like I said I won't know until I breed it, but it looks great at the moment.
I don't know what it will be called if it keeps the colours.

One thing I would like to see however is; if there are so many of these dam things in captivity and wild lets see some pics. Surely if they are as common as some make out there must be a few pics out there. How about some baby-adult shots to show colour loss etc......c'mon guys plemty of people claim they are common so lets see them!

Personally I don't care what it is called, as it is a cracker of a snake in the flesh and I won't be parting with her!
jas

 

[Australis]

Im with TB on this one, and ive seen my share of wild Coastal Carpets that are nothing more than shades of grey
just normal variation i suppose - they kinda remind me of the colouring seen in some Inland Carpets.
Speaking of which..
If i recall correctly a certain keeper (self proclaimed expert on genetics) thought they had
axanthic Inlands... not sure if anything came of it, but i highly doubt it.

Labeling animals axanthic sure seems the flavor of the month, perhaps someone could suggest
a genetic label i can drop onto some horrendously ugly brown carpets i have...?

Few herpetoculturists have access to the technology required to ascertain the exact nature of the mutations in today's collections. Fewer still would be willing to sacrifice specimens for examination! Myself included!

jas

Zobo,

What technology would require the sacrifice of a specimen, just to determine a mutation(s)?
I cant say ive ever heard of this, not even from o/s.. where i only notice the typical methods of
proving mutations through breeding trials, could you give anymore details for us?

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Yes Sdaji, i know first generation will be double het and look normal. I think Colin was talking about the F2 generation, a combination of these two traits will give you a ghost morph.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I think that was a quote out of one of Colin's post that he found on the net Australis. And who was the self proclaimed expert that had axanthic inland carpets? I would say some inland carpets definately look axanthic!

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Yes Sdaji, i know first generation will be double het and look normal. I think Colin was talking about the F2 generation, a combination of these two traits will give you a ghost morph.

 

[TrueBlue]

sdaji, going by the post and link that colin posted true axanthic animals are more black and white than anything else with, quote, only intermediate shades of grey. The other form that are refered to as axanthic animals are still being debated on whether or not they are true axanthic animals or just a name thats been labelled to descride them.

herpkeeper, the last time i saw this animal it was easily 4-5 ft, a young adult and a breedable size, not 3 ft.
It still had no other colour comming thru at all. Compared to the many greys and other so called b/w coastals that ive seen over the years, yes visually it is easily the only coastal that i would call a possible axanthic. We have spoken about this animal a number of times and you have agreed with me.???
I sent a b/w coastal to Brian Starky years ago that makes your female that you refer to as a b/w look incredibly normal and yet i still wouldnt of refered to it as a true axanthic animal.
This other animal on the other hand as said was a totally different kettle of fish.

disasterpeice,- no the bloke that had this animal dosnt go on line. I think i remeber the one your are talking about and once again it was nothing like the animal that im refering to.

 

[Australis]

I think that was a quote out of one of Colin's post that he found on the net Australis. And who was the self proclaimed expert that had axanthic inland carpets? I would say some inland carpets definately look axanthic!

Of course some inland carpets look axanthic, but thats to be expected within a sub-species that
is so very commonly shades of grey to begin with, naive and wishful thinking doesn't render them axanthic.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Naive and wishful thinking? Now thats a first, dont think i have been called that before. Then within the sub specie they have axanthic characteristics. But not all of us are experts, i guess.

 

[Australis]

I'm not saying your naive, but perhaps your puppet master is.

 

[ad]

lol Australis, yeah an all grey/black inland is a definite morph :lol:

 

[Khagan]

Personally I don't care what it is called, as it is a cracker of a snake in the flesh and I won't be parting with her!

Gotta say i agree with that statement, i couldn't give a crap what people do and don't wonna call your coastal, it's still a lot nicer than most coastals .

 

[Australis]

lol Australis, yeah an all grey/black inland is a definite morph :lol:

Yeah for sure ad, ive even heard of patternless olives - these are truly amazing times ..

 

[zobo]

Originally Posted by zobo
Few herpetoculturists have access to the technology required to ascertain the exact nature of the mutations in today's collections. Fewer still would be willing to sacrifice specimens for examination! Myself included!

jas

Zobo,

What technology would require the sacrifice of a specimen, just to determine a mutation(s)?
I cant say ive ever heard of this, not even from o/s.. where i only notice the typical methods of
proving mutations through breeding trials, could you give anymore details for us?



I have no idea I just cut and pasted the info from Colins post and that was at end of the relevant info!!

 

[Sdaji]

sdaji, going by the post and link that colin posted true axanthic animals are more black and white than anything else with, quote, only intermediate shades of grey. The other form that are refered to as axanthic animals are still being debated on whether or not they are true axanthic animals or just a name thats been labelled to descride them.

In some species axanthics stand out like a smile on a parking attendant. Things like Corn Snakes for example, where the normal ones are vivid red and orange. On some of these screamingly obvious ones you get browns etc, and there is no doubt they are axanthics. With Carpets it's a little trickier to know what you're looking at (as with Black-headeds, Children's, black Tiger Snakes, many of the Black Snakes, Black Rock Skinks, many other lizards, etc etc etc), because hypoxanthism is very common, as you say. The normal range goes from lots of xanthophores (like zobo's comparison animal) through to what would pass for axanthics (as you say), but it's difficult to say whether or not some of the extreme hypoxanthics are true axanthics or not.

Time will tell.

At the end of the day, this case isn't anything to get excited about, because no matter what the genetics, it's still a Carpet Python and nothing will change that.

 

[slacker]

At the end of the day, this case isn't anything to get excited about, because no matter what the genetics, it's still a Carpet Python and nothing will change that.

Usually I wouldn't bother responding to a thread if all I had to say was this, but I'm making an exception:

lol.

 

[TrueBlue]

Yes i agree sdaji. But because this so called term hypoaxanthism is so common in alot of reptile species, i strongly belive that its just a false name made up to describe forms of normal common occurring reptiles.
Lets face it alot of reptile species are highly variable and imo this is just another common variation.
True axanthics on the other hand seem to be very rare in most species.

I also agree, a carpet is just a carpet no matter what it looks like. Ive turned down a free pair of albinos before, they just do nothing for me at all.
The only reason i keep the hypos is because i got them years ago when i did like carpets, just a bit. And now want to see if i can eliminate most if not all the black completely. More of a fun thing than anything else, as they to bore me to a large extent, they are still only carpets.