Bring Ball Pythons to Australia

[Dannyboi]

You are a lucky man to work with such amazing species. What kind of bird was it that you purchased? They have been of display for too long I haven't had a good glimpse of them in over 5 years. They have a blue and gold macaw free flight but that is nothing to spectacular as Blue and Golds are sold fairly regularly to people and I know a few breeders with them I want to get up close to the worlds largest parrot. All I am saying is that animals all had to come from somewhere and there is no way that they just happened to fly into peoples cages (other than traps). I mean we have a ban on exporting of Australian Natives yet America and other countries seem to be able to get whatever they want. These exotic animals have done nothing wrong and something needs to be done to protect them once they are within Australia. Unless they are incredibly common in which case they should concentrate on the rarer species.

 

[Stevo2]

You are a lucky man to work with such amazing species. What kind of bird was it that you purchased? They have been of display for too long I haven't had a good glimpse of them in over 5 years. They have a blue and gold macaw free flight but that is nothing to spectacular as Blue and Golds are sold fairly regularly to people and I know a few breeders with them I want to get up close to the worlds largest parrot. All I am saying is that animals all had to come from somewhere and there is no way that they just happened to fly into peoples cages (other than traps). I mean we have a ban on exporting of Australian Natives yet America and other countries seem to be able to get whatever they want. These exotic animals have done nothing wrong and something needs to be done to protect them once they are within Australia. Unless they are incredibly common in which case they should concentrate on the rarer species.

Yup, we've gone a bit off topic.. lol. Hys are gentle and very intelligent (as are most of the parrots, lol). Very easy to work with and learn behaviours really well. If you want to get up close and personal with one then I suggest you head to Ashmore Palms Holiday Village on the Gold Coast - they have one on display. Nice bird too, it shares an aviary with a couple of Red-Fronted macaws. I purchased an Alexandrine, well before they were being kept widely in the hobby. He was with me for 15years before succumbing to cancer. Now I have my yellow-nape amazon. Not going to delve into the mess that is the illegal smuggling of our wildlife overseas...

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Amazing that this has gone to 7 pages. No petition from members of APS is going to change Federal minds on this. It's not going to happen just because you want one in your loungeroom.

The blanket ban on exotics works very well for the bureaucrats - if you are a private person and you are caught with an exotic reptile, you are breaking the law (with the exception of those granted permits under amnesty in NSW and Vic in the 90s). There are no grey areas to prove in court. Which is why the legalised import won't happen, it will create a mix of legal and illegal animals which will make prosecution much more complex. And don't kid yourself that allowing legal imports will reduce the temptation to smuggle - it will increase smuggling due to the sudden appearance of a legal market, and the difficulty in distinguishing legal from illegal animals.

Of course, if you have vast amounts of money and influence, rules can be 'bent' - even in WA, where John Roberts had a collection of Galapagos Tortoises on licence at his property in the Swan Valley... but that's another story.

Jamie

 

[Dannyboi]

Amazing that this has gone to 7 pages. No petition from members of APS is going to change Federal minds on this. It's not going to happen just because you want one in your loungeroom.

The blanket ban on exotics works very well for the bureaucrats - if you are a private person and you are caught with an exotic reptile, you are breaking the law (with the exception of those granted permits under amnesty in NSW and Vic in the 90s). There are no grey areas to prove in court. Which is why the legalised import won't happen, it will create a mix of legal and illegal animals which will make prosecution much more complex. And don't kid yourself that allowing legal imports will reduce the

Of course, if you have vast amounts of money and influence, rules can be 'bent' - even in WA, where John Roberts had a collection of Galapagos Tortoises on licence at his property in the Swan Valley... but that's another story.

Jamie

An amnesty now that what I'm talking about.... There are legal ways of keeping exotics.......can these people apply to take on the exotics seized from illegal collections? Or are they restricted to the snakes that they had back then?

 

[crikey]

what type of macaw is everyone talking about that cause a guy at a gym has a male and female macaw on desplay and he is planing on breeding them

 

[Dannyboi]

All Macaws with the proper paperwork that are captive bred are legal assuming you have to cash to buy them..... Apparently there are 20 odd Hyacinth Macaws legally kept in captivity in Australia.

 

[pythrulz]

Would be exspensive to import them but who wouldnt like exotic imports if the narrow minded government change there supertight import laws you can buy the through out america and europe why not here hopefully they will change one day

 

[atothej09]

Great post JoshuaAtherton!
Loved it.
Can't believe some people are so aggressive with their responses, geez, it's just a discussion topic...
Great points from everyone though, it's been a great learning topic. Thank you to all contributors.
I still love the look of the Ball Pythons, nothing will change my mind on that

 

[Colin]

Amazing that this has gone to 7 pages.

its school holidays jamie

 

[Pythoninfinite]

An amnesty now that what I'm talking about.... There are legal ways of keeping exotics.......can these people apply to take on the exotics seized from illegal collections? Or are they restricted to the snakes that they had back then?

The amnesty happened in 1997 (correct me if I'm wrong) and applied in NSW only. Those who declared exotics under that amnesty were permitted to keep them.

There was another 'declare and destroy' amnesty in 2004 or 2005, this time Australia-wide, in which if you had exotics illegally, you could surrender then for destruction without incurring a penalty. Needless to say, it was a pointless exercise with a poor response from the community - no one would give up their animals to have them euthanased.

A 'declare and keep' amnesty is not likely to happen again, especially in the forseeable future. Animals seized at this time are automatically euthed if not required by institutions authorised to keep them.

Jamie

Ha! Thanks for that Col! Nice to see you back here...

 

[Stevo2]

Why on earth would there ever be a need, by the government, to offer a second 'declare and keep' amnesty - anything declared would have arrived (illegally) since the first amnesty and only enables and accepts smuggling..... stupid. Plain stupid.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

 

[sarah_m]

Where does it stop though? Ok, say hypothetically they legalize ball pythons? Will everyone be happy with that?
OF COURSE NOT!
There will always be something else we want and if they make an exception for one species.....

Maybe ball pythons won't cause an ecological disaster like so many other non native species have, but it's a big fat ????
You can take an educated guess ie. they will be fine in Melbourne cos it's too cold for them to survive in the wild, but what about in warmer/tropical areas? We just DON'T KNOW!

The fact is snakes escape. No one wants it to happen but we have all read the frequent "help, my snake escaped threads". Another fact is that there will always be irresponsible people who tire of their novelty pet and release them.

As it is Australia has an awful track record of exotic introductions (intentional and otherwise)and a shocking extinction rate.
Is it really worth risking more of our already damaged ecosystems and struggeling species for the sake of something new and different, when we are already so lucky with what we can keep?
Yes, there are exotics here already. Yes, non native fish, birds, amphibians and mammals have already caused irreparable harm. But why compound it by adding more?

 

[Snowman]

Where does it stop though? Ok, say hypothetically they legalize ball pythons? Will everyone be happy with that?
OF COURSE NOT!
There will always be something else we want and if they make an exception for one species.....

Maybe ball pythons won't cause an ecological disaster like so many other non native species have, but it's a big fat ????
You can take an educated guess ie. they will be fine in Melbourne cos it's too cold for them to survive in the wild, but what about in warmer/tropical areas? We just DON'T KNOW!

The fact is snakes escape. No one wants it to happen but we have all read the frequent "help, my snake escaped threads". Another fact is that there will always be irresponsible people who tire of their novelty pet and release them.

As it is Australia has an awful track record of exotic introductions (intentional and otherwise)and a shocking extinction rate.
Is it really worth risking more of our already damaged ecosystems and struggeling species for the sake of something new and different, when we are already so lucky with what we can keep?
Yes, there are exotics here already. Yes, non native fish, birds, amphibians and mammals have already caused irreparable harm. But why compound it by adding more?

We aren't adding more.... We'd be simply bringing to the surface what is already here. Besides we cant even keep a diamond python or GTP in WA. Each state could easily regulate exotics based on risk of survival.
I'm surprised by the number of people who think that we are talking about bringing them in. Surely everyone has been offered an exotic at some stage, that's how many are out there.

 

[guzzo]

Where does it stop though? Ok, say hypothetically they legalize ball pythons? Will everyone be happy with that?
OF COURSE NOT!
There will always be something else we want and if they make an exception for one species.....

Maybe ball pythons won't cause an ecological disaster like so many other non native species have, but it's a big fat ????
You can take an educated guess ie. they will be fine in Melbourne cos it's too cold for them to survive in the wild, but what about in warmer/tropical areas? We just DON'T KNOW!

The fact is snakes escape. No one wants it to happen but we have all read the frequent "help, my snake escaped threads". Another fact is that there will always be irresponsible people who tire of their novelty pet and release them.

As it is Australia has an awful track record of exotic introductions (intentional and otherwise)and a shocking extinction rate.
Is it really worth risking more of our already damaged ecosystems and struggeling species for the sake of something new and different, when we are already so lucky with what we can keep?
Yes, there are exotics here already. Yes, non native fish, birds, amphibians and mammals have already caused irreparable harm. But why compound it by adding more?

I agree Sarah. Snakes escape......I am pretty sure any of the big exotics would do pretty well if they got out in the Top End.....Bit like the Everglades in Florida.

 

[battla]

Ws if the narrow minded government change there supertight import laws you can buy the through out america and europe why not here y

Considering the issues escaped exotic reptiles are causing in America and the major damage invasive species are already causing here, perhaps the "narrow minded government" is learning from past mistakes and trying to ensure we don't stuff things up even more. Or maybe they are just on a power trip and really like bureaucracy, I don't know.

 

[sarah_m]

We aren't adding more.... We'd be simply bringing to the surface what is already here. Besides we cant even keep a diamond python or GTP in WA. Each state could easily regulate exotics based on risk of survival.
I'm surprised by the number of people who think that we are talking about bringing them in. Surely everyone has been offered an exotic at some stage, that's how many are out there.

I realise they are already here, but if made legal and more easily obtainable then there is a far greater likelyhood that numbers will end up in the wild to cause a problem. As has been mentioned, it would also allow for illegal imports to more easily be laundered in with the legal ones.
When I say "adding to the problem" I was refering to other exotic species that people will want legalized and imported if ball pythons were to be allowed.

I know that there are corns turning up in people yards, which just proves that it is likely to happen with other species.
As far as what to do with the illegal ones already here? I don't have a perfect solution.
While it's sad to see to see beautiful animals destroyed just because they don't belong here, there doesn't seem any other viable solution.
As it is most zoo's and wildlife parks have plenty of corns, burms, boas and retics. Someone said something about allowing some private keepers a special licence to keep them but surely if some are allowed then the rest would cause a fuss and want the same "rights". This of course all seams very messy then, so is probably part of why there is a blanket rule.

 

[Bax155]

Why import? There is no need for it really when you can get them here already, meet 1 person that keeps them and they can introduce you to another 10 that keep them and each of them can introduce you to exotic keepers and so on and so on, will these people ever be caught? Highly unlikely unless dobed in, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do, would you dob in someone cause they keep WA Olives or Oenpelli's? I can't see how anyone with a heart could dob a fellow Aussie in for keeping a species illegally when we know full well what happens to these amazing animals, as for all these people that get on their high horses about those that do, pull your heads in, you don't see me thinking less of 'you' cause you keep Spotteds, Albinos or Hypos (I personally dislike all these snakes), if you want to keep an ugly snake or an illegal snake thats your choice, why do people try and make choices for others all the time? You don't even know these people, let alone know their motives and tastes.
I remember the first time I met an exotic keeper I was so excited, when do you get to touch an exotic python? Go to a zoo and you can see them behind glass but you don't get to touch, feel or experience a close encounter unless of course you get your picture taken with one which n my opinion is usually rushed and involves others holding on to the snake to in a rather kooky looking pose for a picture , as for Australian pythons a majority can easily be found in their natural habitats, providing you know spots to search and how to conduct searches. Maybe we should ban the keeping of natives and only be allowed to keep exotics? Hell no, then those poor saps who don't know how to herp or let alone know what the word means, they would never get the chance to experience our natives close up.
Yes people will always have their opinions and feel the need to share them and please do, but when you start attacking people because they have a fascination for something your not into you just look the fool/idiot and are seriously the type of people I try not to associate with in life as drama tends to surround these type of characters, we all know quite well APS is full of these types of people I myself may have at 1 time went to far with an opinion, its the 1's that live and learn that last in this great hobby of ours those that don't change burn themselves out and sit by themselves and wonder why no-one comes over no more to visit.
Peace..
Bax...

 

[hrafna]

I realise they are already here, but if made legal and more easily obtainable then there is a far greater likelyhood that numbers will end up in the wild to cause a problem. As has been mentioned, it would also allow for illegal imports to more easily be laundered in with the legal ones.
When I say "adding to the problem" I was refering to other exotic species that people will want legalized and imported if ball pythons were to be allowed.

I know that there are corns turning up in people yards, which just proves that it is likely to happen with other species.
As far as what to do with the illegal ones already here? I don't have a perfect solution.
While it's sad to see to see beautiful animals destroyed just because they don't belong here, there doesn't seem any other viable solution.
As it is most zoo's and wildlife parks have plenty of corns, burms, boas and retics. Someone said something about allowing some private keepers a special licence to keep them but surely if some are allowed then the rest would cause a fuss and want the same "rights". This of course all seams very messy then, so is probably part of why there is a blanket rule.

what if there was some sort of ruling that a private keeper must have x amount of years experience with snakes or someone needs to be a listed breeder for x amount of years before they can apply for these special permits to allow snakes that are already here that have been knocked back by a zoo? that way if someone wanted to have the right to claim an illegal import that is already here, they then know they need say 10 yrs experience with keeping snakes to apply for a permit!

 

[Snowman]

I realise they are already here, but if made legal and more easily obtainable then there is a far greater likelyhood that numbers will end up in the wild to cause a problem. As has been mentioned, it would also allow for illegal imports to more easily be laundered in with the legal ones.
When I say "adding to the problem" I was refering to other exotic species that people will want legalized and imported if ball pythons were to be allowed.

I know that there are corns turning up in people yards, which just proves that it is likely to happen with other species.
As far as what to do with the illegal ones already here? I don't have a perfect solution.
While it's sad to see to see beautiful animals destroyed just because they don't belong here, there doesn't seem any other viable solution.
As it is most zoo's and wildlife parks have plenty of corns, burms, boas and retics. Someone said something about allowing some private keepers a special licence to keep them but surely if some are allowed then the rest would cause a fuss and want the same "rights". This of course all seams very messy then, so is probably part of why there is a blanket rule.

But what about all the exotics being bred that cant be moved on... How many stupid people just release the excess stock into the wild. The answers are the same both sides of the argument. That's why this debate gets no where. IE if they legalise it, people will release them and they will take over. If they don't legalise it there is no where to move stock so red eared sliders end up in the local creek...

 

[guzzo]

Just out of intrest.....Other than corns have there been any documented cases of any of the larger exotic pythons/boas turning up in the wild??