Carpet Python Genetics

[Retic]

Absolutely, as a species we are all the same, we are genetically different as individuals obviously.

So your saying that geneticaly your the same as an afrian pygmy, boa.

 

[TrueBlue]

:shock: :roll:

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

There was apparently a recent study that showed the Jungle and Coastal Carpet share the exact same genetic make up so are in fact the same species.

probably a stupid question but what type of jungle was the study done with,ie' atherton etc

 

[Retic]

I have no idea what that refers to ?

:shock: :roll:

 

[ad]

Most of us wouldn't cross a WA and QLD BHP, there is no real point.

So what animals is there a 'point' to crossing? :roll: :roll:

 

[Retic]

I don't know, maybe a Taipan and a Scrubbie, it would make a great guard 'dog'.

 

[Nome]

What bothers me is the amount of clear crosses I've seen lately been advertised, even on this site, as a pure snake. These are people that probably don't know any different, but what happens when the next person who buys them, breeds them, sells them off as pure when they aren't?

Boa, dogs can not be differentiated genetically, but there are clear problems with breeding a small dog to a very large dog. The offspring off crossed dogs can have massive health and temperment problems.

This sounds like a very weak argument IMO.

 

[dee4]

I beleive peter, that there were DNA tests done that actually seperated Bredlis from Spilota. I can't remeber who but I remember reading it. Not sure of the others but I think that's what Boa is getting at.

 

[Retic]

What exactly is a weak argument ? I wasn't aware there was any argument at all. I am just reporting on the fact that it appears that scientists have discovered that these 2 snakes are genetically identical.

 

[Retic]

No that isn't the research I am talking about, I think the Bredls study was done a little while ago, this coastal/jungle research is current.

I beleive peter, that there were DNA tests done that actually seperated Bredlis from Spilota. I can't remeber who but I remember reading it. Not sure of the others but I think that's what Boa is getting at.

 

[dee4]

I'm not saying it wasn't, don't be so defensive. I beleive you are talking about the same sort of thing though aren't you?? No argument from me.

 

[Nome]

A weak argument to support your signature

It's been said before, people that want to buy or produce hybrids say all the same things. I know that whether I like it or not, it's going to happen :roll:

I wish herp breeders had some kind of organization such as is used with dogs, where there is a code of ethics adhered to in regards to cross breeding.

 

[Retic]

Sorry, defensive, did I miss something ? I was just pointing out that I knew about the Bredli stuff but that wasn't part of it. Confused.

I'm not saying it wasn't, don't be so defensive. I beleive you are talking about the same sort of thing though aren't you?? No argument from me.

 

[dee4]

Maybe you , maybe me. Wasn't sure wether or not Peter was aware so i thought I would add. Maybe I should have quoted!!!!! Sorry.

But back to the Carpet isue. I know I keep repeating myself here. But when I learned about herps Bredlis were m. spilota variegata as were Jungles, Coastals, Darwins and MD's. Something just changed between 1988 and now.

Hope you find what you are actually after then!!!

 

[Retic]

Nome, I have no need or desire to justify my signature. I love hybrids but I could also add pure, intergrades, crosses, blah blah blah
The post was to inform people that something interesting was happening with carpet genetics, I'm not saying I agree or disagree and I haven't even read it yet and it may not be true.
The people against hybrids also trot out the same things, there is no difference.
I think to be fair we have an unofficial code of ethics which I think the majority stick to. Unethical behaviour certainly isn't restricted to those who cross breed believe me.

 

[Retic]

I was hoping this might promote a little good natured friendly debate, it's an interesting subject but could do with out the usual mud slinging.

 

[Nome]

I know you don't need to justify your signature, you've made it clear how you feel before...i was typing with tongue in cheek.

Yes, we do spout the same arguments also, the problem for us though is that it's happening, and even if we don't support it, it affects us. Just look at the amount of hybrids being advertised as pure snakes lately. Whether people like it or not, if thye can't see the differences, and many can't, they might go on to breed these. Makes it hard to have a choice whether you want to be contributing to the hybrid problem or not. I had the same argument as many do, if there must be hybrids in the hobby, at least they need to be advertised as hybrids- but this is clearly not happening in many cases.

Back to your genetic post, I'd like to refer you back to the post I made about dog genetics. Even if the study does show identical genetics between a coastal carpet and jungle, the are still a different subspecies. There are clear differences between them, as there are between different breeds of dogs.

 

[Nome]

huh?? where's the mud slinging??

 

[Retic]

Nome, I knew it was tongue in cheek that's why I put the smiley after my response.
I must admit I haven't seen many hybrids advertised and I can't recall any advertised as pure. I am absolutely 100% with you on the subject of selling a snake for exactly what it is.

I think the dog issue is very different to the situation we see with snakes. Many of the problems that we see in some dog breeds are due to intensive inbreeding over many generations and often centuries. I'm not saying that we couldn't see some problems with hybrids in 200 years from now but equally it is impossible to say there will be problems.

 

[Moreliaman]

Arent most GTP's in aus cross bred with new guinea stock ?? you'll have to kill those green mongrels soon !! :wink: :lol: