interesting..

[H.bitorquatus]

Thats like saying I want a ferret but I'll settle for a rat their all furry & look similar

Mick is on the money! Darwin and Jungle = MORELIA SPILOTA, ferret MUSTELA and rat RATTUS are totally different, not even in the same genus so that is a stupid example.

 

[krefft]

I only like the last animal above, the one in the middle would look better jet black. its a jungle jag isn't it? I am fussy though![/QUOTE]

Super Zebra. That one is still only young. Should go bright yellow as it matures.

 

[itbites]

It wasn't supposed to be a scientific example

Yes I am aware they are the same species different sub species though

as for rats & ferrets I have no idea but okay whatever.

My argument isn't over rats & ferrets.

Perhaps I should have wrote rats & mice then for all the thick people?

Either way split hairs or not...

I don't agree with all the crosses I do think pure is more attractive

those are my personal thoughts

 

[bkevo]

i like where the hobby is heading. although my wallet wont be able to keep up.
although i do think there may be a flood of very adverage looking animals in the early stages of mainstream hybridising.

 

[syeph8]

although i do think there may be a flood of very adverage looking animals in the early stages of mainstream hybridising.

my point exactly. and if people arent buying em cos they are dog ugly and you dont want them, dont release them into the wild. do the humane thing

 

[H.bitorquatus]

rats and mice are also different genus as well, can I please have a better example I am either a bit slow or extremely bored

 

[pyrodarknessanny]

love the super zebra, still don't get how zebra can produce that but meh, full yellow! also the 2 jags are tops too!
hybrids and morphs are where its at like it or lump it,

just remember there are always 2 sides to the fence

 

[H.bitorquatus]

Pyro your on the hybrids side arn't you since you are crossing subspecies?

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-discussion-42/locality-cross-stimsons-130908

Why does everyone jump up and down over morelia spilota hybrids but not care about any other species subspecies?

PS I am not on the against side of the hybrid argument, more on the side of not really caring

 

[gunny]

jag isnt a hybrid mate

Most Jags are hybrid. If i were told i was buying a pure line of mcdowelli jags i would want some pretty strong evidence to support it. The black and yellow and black and white jags everyone drools over are mostly Jungle crosses.

 

[pyrodarknessanny]

1 its not hybridizing there "locations" are different, (all animals involved at this point are classed as eastern stems)
2 don't ask me, morelia is i diffrent kettle of fish all together,

people would jump down my thought if i said i was crossing the stims with a childrni or a mac there too different,
and i guess thats why morelia "hybriders" get flamed more readily besouce the species involved are too different.

and so what if im pro hybrid? that automatically discredits me? , i believe that stimson's are stimson regardless of local, thus not hybrids. morelia as a more sensitive issue , i WOULD like to see where hybrid morelia go in the future but at this point have no real interest in hybridizing morelia my self .

 

[potato matter]

I'm sure hundreds of people will disagree with me on this, but I personally think that hybrids are fine as long as it's a one off kind off a thing... As long as pure lines are maintained... each to their own.

 

[syeph8]

jag isnt a hybrid mate

Most Jags are hybrid. If i were told i was buying a pure line of mcdowelli jags i would want some pretty strong evidence to support it. The black and yellow and black and white jags everyone drools over are mostly Jungle crosses.

they were also imported(correct me if i am wrong), even though they were originally an export. doesnt mean we should start shipping over snakes. the real issue is not should we allow hybidising. its should we allow the selling of hybrids to tom dick and harry because they have a liscence? whats goin to happen to the ugly ones? will they breed? at what point will someone then breed these snakes with possible genetic defects down enough to look like pure species? there are too many ethical implications also of toying with genetics without knowing the ramifications for the offspring simply for the chance of a different looking snake.

 

[gunny]

they were also imported(correct me if i am wrong), even though they were originally an export. doesnt mean we should start shipping over snakes. the real issue is not should we allow hybidising. its should we allow the selling of hybrids to tom dick and harry because they have a liscence? whats goin to happen to the ugly ones? will they breed? at what point will someone then breed these snakes with possible genetic defects down enough to look like pure species? there are too many ethical implications also of toying with genetics without knowing the ramifications for the offspring simply for the chance of a different looking snake.

Jags neuro problems are probably the worst genetic defect around and is not the cause of hybridising. What genetic defects from hybridising are you basing your statement from? Most genetic morphs come from line breeding which i would call a genetic defect.

I put up a thread asking about identifying anterasia and was told there is no difference between subspecies except pattern and that most would intergrade in the wild. I believe coastals and jungles intergrade as well as i have caught carpets i believe are intergrades.

Not having a go at you mate just chin wagging. Im not for or against either side no one has or can control such things people will do it anyway.

I've seen nicer snakes than others but i've never seen an ugly one.

 

[No-two]

1 its not hybridizing there "locations" are different, (all animals involved at this point are classed as eastern stems)
2 don't ask me, morelia is i diffrent kettle of fish all together,

people would jump down my thought if i said i was crossing the stims with a childrni or a mac there too different,
and i guess thats why morelia "hybriders" get flamed more readily besouce the species involved are too different.

and so what if im pro hybrid? that automatically discredits me? , i believe that stimson's are stimson regardless of local, thus not hybrids. morelia as a more sensitive issue , i WOULD like to see where hybrid morelia go in the future but at this point have no real interest in hybridizing morelia my self .

Technically hybridising is crossing two things that are different, so crossing known localities is hybridising, however you look at it, its very similar to carpet pythons, they're not much different other than locality. In victoria they're still seen as all the same species 'carpet python'. I'm not going to jump up and down over hybrids or make them. But I'd certainly buy some of those ones Krefft has posted, they're cracker animals, but I don't think its the way of the future, at the very least its hard to say, its stupid to speculate, I think theres always going to be groups of pure people and groups of people that just want the pretty ones. I like both, I'm certainly not about to stop keeping pure animals though.

 

[syeph8]

Jags neuro problems are probably the worst genetic defect around and is not the cause of hybridising. What genetic defects from hybridising are you basing your statement from? Most genetic morphs come from line breeding which i would call a genetic defect.

I put up a thread asking about identifying anterasia and was told there is no difference between subspecies except pattern and that most would intergrade in the wild. I believe coastals and jungles intergrade as well as i have caught carpets i believe are intergrades.

Not having a go at you mate just chin wagging. Im not for or against either side no one has or can control such things people will do it anyway.

I've seen nicer snakes than others but i've never seen an ugly one.

again, although i come across as anti-hybridising, i am just a big fan of the "better safe than sorry" school of thought. jag, although not hybrids, were what i was refering to. but you never know how big an effect even slight genetic changes can have on an individual unless you study it under controlled conditions. and then couple that with the odds that eventually someone will post an "i lost my hybrid darwin x jungle" in victoria or having a bad pairing and releasing the ones they can't give away (this happens) and you are asking for trouble. better to have a solid, well studdied line before you go dispersing them to anyone who asks. this at least is a safer option. if hybridising is, infact, the future of herping then so be it but dont rush it and dont half-*** it, do it propperly for those of us who enjoy living in our country the way it is now without adding to our long list of endangered and extinct species.

 

[ShaunMorelia]

As long as they sold as what they are and it is legal in their state, I say go for it.

 

[euphorion]

I know some people consider Platinum Macs to be hybrids. Fair call, but like the diamondxcoastals are they natural integrades? Seems like the line drawn between locality specific/sub species and naturally occurring integrades is becoming fuzzier by the minute. It seems that nomatter what the majority of keepers want in terms of either maintaining pure locality specific animals or being 'permitted' to create hybrid morphs (as in the US our Europe) the hobby is leaning towards simply what is 'new' or 'different'. It's obvious the demand is there, there will always be someone willing to supply and eventually it will just become a mainstream part of the hobby.

Would like thoughts on where the line exists/should exist in terms of localities. Reference to diamond/coastal integrades would be an apt comparson.

 

[waruikazi]

Bloody n00bs. Can you use the search function before starting these threads?

I used to really enjoy reading the retarded misinformation on these threads, but i'm a bit tired of seeing the same arguments based on nothing popping up all the time. I think a n00b would post a thread like this atleast once a month, with that number of these threads you'd think there would be atleast one new factless argument come up every second month or so.

Oh oh oh! I just thought of one. I retain intelectual property rights on this one though.

Don't you hybridizers realize that if one of your hybrid offspring escapes it could breed with Medusa damaging that gene pool. It hasn't happened yet but it is possible that the wild hybrid offspring, when you look into their eyes, would turn you into flowers instead of stone. That's just an unatural thing for a snake demon to do. Imagine if the eco terrorists got hold of one!?!?!

 

[Cheyne_Jones]

How come everyone is kidding them selves saying Jags are not hybrids? Do you even have any idea on how hard it is to get pure lines overseas? Up until pretty much the early 90's a carpet python was a carpet python weather it was black and gold or had rosettes like a what we now call a diamond. So most people overseas just bred them with everything and anything to see what happened. So how do you expect to have an animal like a Jag which originated overseas to be pure? This is going to be a problem in the future with people that dont know better passing off jag sibs as pure just because they have what they determine to be a coastal jag. Let the muddying begin...

 

[Jungletrans]

lf , as suggested , a hybrid released [ accidently or on purpose ] into the wild would mate with the local animals and cause mayhem , then doesnt it follow that a pure snake that enters the bush out of its original location would breed with the locals . Followed by hybrids and mayhem .