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Well said Mangles.

Greebo you posted! Couldn't agree more as well, I am happy to show family and close friends, but even trying to persuade them that they aren't what they are made out to be is hard enough, imagine hundreds of onlookers coming up crowding around to look at you and stickybeak.

That would absolutely stress the animal out.. as stated it can be the most placid thing you can imagine, but only takes a split second and its latched onto a childs face.

Leave them the way they are..
 
Its not about taking them to somewhere that there are limited people around. The law is never going to state, "Only to places where there are limited or no people" they will always get abused.

Basically, if you wanna take it for a walk go for it. Your not going to get caught anyway (well HIGHLY unlikely, so keep doing what your doing because the laws wont change.
 
and i dont think i would be giving our hobbie a bad name by educating ppl that these arent creatures that need to be hit by a shovel and can be awesome pets with alot of research....
 
Thats all well and good mate, and I agree, but in 'practice' it doesnt work by the public seeing a bloke walking around with his Coastal or whatever.

Imagine all the idiots who keep reptiles in horrible conditions and dont know how to look after them getting a license to take them for a walk! Then giving ADVICE to people, lets not even think about the escapes!
 
greebo im not takin my snakes down to "the strand" (main beach in townsville here... well if u could call it a beach).... im talkin out cape pallarenda where u are lucky to see another person 500m away and its usually a half blind fisherman anyway and its for a bit of sun (i have dogs so its easier for me to go accross the road then dodge doggies land mines in my back yard) and its never for more than about 10mins or so.... so to me thats being responsible and NOBODY ever referred to them as being fashion accesories and i do take offence to that...

And i have to disagree with you can prove that i have changed most people i have come into contact withs views on snakes just by holding a hatchie....


You asked for opinions. Perhaps you were actually seeking validation instead.
 
no i am after opinions.... i just took offence to your tone.... well the tone i was imagining in my head..... it sounded very accusational (i dont actually know if that is a word but ill put it out there anyway lol)
 
thanks for that twiggz.... but again we're missing the point that if YOU want to take YOUR snakes out in public or to someone house etc then it is YOUR risk and YOUR responsibilty for security measure, quarantine etc....

and yeah the paper work would be annoying but thats all i could think of so that it is recorded in a way....


But still with cris point of transferring the disease to native wildlife. Who are YOU to make YOUR decision to INFECT our native wildlife that doesn't really affect you after done but affects everyone and the future generations to come.

Cheers
 
can i ask why you wont to take your ie snakes for a walk
also if you wont your friends to see them y not invite them to your place
 
Scott and I have a number of snakes (listed on the footer) and I have no problem giving people an insight as to why I keep herps... I also have pics on the wall above my work computer, and Scott and I both have customised ANZ cards with snakes (mine is the Bredli, his is the BHP's)

My point is without moving our herps, they are getting people interested and that leads, sometimes, into long discussions (and most people are shocked that a girl has herps(me) but can't wait to hear more) and sometimes they then want to see the snakes...

I must say I'm not wanting to 'show off' or exhibit my herps, ( I also have a Credit Card with the dog on it) but people ARE interested, and I'm not going to invite a stranger to my house... So I have offered to meet them at the same place (ie their work), or at their place...
My herps are under my care, and a touch on the tail is the most people do.. and it's with the anti-bac gell before and after.... AND I usually convince people there are better snakes than dead snakes - - mine!?!?!?
 
I haven't managed to read all posts yet but here is my respose:
- disease and effect on wild populations is a risk - and I'll also point out snakes have few similarities with cats and dogs and can not be compared imo.
- you say it should be YOUR descision so basically you decide its ok FOR YOU, yet you would act as a vector for disease and viruses for the rest of the herp community.
- a comment was made about educating the public and converting shovel wielders - its called a demonstrators licence in Vic, I'm sure you have something similar. Also you don't always need a live example to prove your point.
- and lastly why would you want to? You say you want the freedom to take your snakes to friends etc., just invite them over, and a walk on the beach... its romantic but may cause your snake a lot of stress and make it tired. Remember reptiles aren't like dogs they don't need to play, spend a lot of energy etc. most snakes prefer small spaces where they can sleep the day away.

Not having a go this is just my opinion which you requested :)
 
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Here Here sengir.

Surely its been established by now that your actions can/do/ are likely to have an affect of some magnitude on others (whether this be stressing the animals, risk of disease/theft, education etc etc).

Its no longer a matter as to what you as an individual wish to pursue, you need to take into account the RISK involved to the environment, wild herps, others collections, human behaviour and the education issue.

No matter how you look at this now someone is only going to sling the arguement/discussion back to one of the issues above.

Its no longer a personal choice or objective- the rules are in place for good reason and are there to avoid all "RISKS"- whether they do/ dont/ or may exist the rules stop this from occuring.

JMO and no offence intended by any means.
 
im all for the laws, it protects exhibitors lively hood from cowboys, and protects your herps from stress and disease etc.
IMO captive snakes should be left alone as much as possible and not played with like toys.
 
on the point of spreading diseases such as OPMV to wild populations,
i am supprised that it has not already occured. to my knowledge OPMV has been known to exist in Aus for a while now (and may have even originated in wild Aus pops) and to my knowledge, there has not been much in the way of evidence of OPMV being a prob in wild populations.
it occurs to me that OPMV may be carried by many wild snakes and that only in certain situations (such as captivity) will it spread and cause disiease.
god knows that there have been many escapees from private collections, and at least a few of these would have to be infected with OPMV, so where are all the dying snakes?
if anyone can answer any of these questions please do, i am mostly guessing and hypothesizing.
 
Another opinion I would like to add to the discussion.

I see a lot of people saying they would like to be able to take their animals out into the public for "education". This raises two issues - the first, which TrueBlue touched on, is that it detracts from the livelihood of wildlife demonstrators. The second issue, is that just because somebody owns a couple of pythons, doesn't mean they are in a position to educate the general public about snakes. I don't want to sound like a biggot, or an elitist, but there is a lot of misinformation circulating both in the general public, and on these internet forums. I personally believe it is better to supply no information at all, rather than tainted or incorrect information.

A third, seperate, issue is that there are quite a number of people you will encounter who have a very real fear of snakes. Whether their fear is justified is irrelevant, but do you think that you have the right to reduce someone to a shaking, crying mess, simply because you want to take your snake for walkies?

Cheers

Jonno
 
Intresting thread.

I think its rather cruel to drag your "pet" reptiles around in public constantly.

If you want attention in public get a damn Mohawk, and leave the herps at home!
 
with regards to moving herps around etc. you can do this 100% legally with a demonstators permit. the only catch is it will set you back an arm and a leg and you have to do a minimum of 4 reptile shows a month. ok when i first started this hobby i had a beautiful pair of diamonds, which i still have to this day. i would often ask a friend to come down to the beach with me to have a walk with the snakes, not litterally walk the snakes but take them out and have a walk through the middle of surfers paradise. ok i am now aware that this is illegal and have not done since but it was amazing what sort of responses i got from the general public.

for starters when people saw that i had a snake drapped around my neck they would all say at first is that real. they would see it move and i would re asure them that it sure was real. some people would react what they would call normally, the usual jump out of the way omg response but i was amazed at how many people would actually say can i touch it, this and then. it actually really engaged the general public and gave me an opportunity to show them that snakes are in fact harmless. i was even able to have someone that was petrified of a snake saying the only good snake is a dead one turn around and actually appreciate these animals for what they are. i wish i could still do this, in fact it would be great to be able to do this so that people no longer fear these "dreaded creatures" but apreciate them and take an active interest in the hoppy of keeping herps and our unique and beautiful wildlife.
 
Treating a python like a fashion accessory is wrong on so many levels. People in our hobby tend to forget that we are in the minority. The majority of the unwashed masses do not like snakes. They will look at them behind glass or on the television and that's fine. But the majority will freak out when they come face to face with a live snake. Taking a python down to the beach is not going to change these peoples attitude.This kind of irresponsible behaviour will only continue to give our hobby a bad name.

It's rare for me to agree with Greebo on anything, so when Greebo and I wholeheartedly share a point of view, it surely must be correct!

I find it quite disturbing that a thread like this would be started based on a rule being inappropriate because only 10% of the people it applies to might cause problems! :shock: Laws are not only passed because every single person is going to cause problems if they are not there. Fewer than 10% of the population would want to collect wild snakes, should we abolish all laws preventing people from doing so? If your snake bites some stranger in a shopping center, my license may not be available to me in the near future. Even if your snake terrifies someone in a shopping center (or park, on the street, etc) because they have an insane phobia, my license (and yours and everyone else's in your city/shire/state) is at risk. What kind of person might be this irresponsible? Well, it's a little known fact, but the late Steve Irwin once had a snake he was holding bite a member of an audience while doing a show down here in Victoria and after that he was not able to get a permit to run shows in this state (he got around this by using loopholes along the lines of technically being an assistant in someone else's show, etc). Giving every Joe Moron the go ahead to take their snake out publicly is going to result in bites to the public, and in the end it will mean tighter restrictions. If this was to happen, we'd be lucky if down the track the worst that happened was were were (once again!) banned from taking our snakes off our property and suffered with an even worse public image than we already have.

There is no reason good enough to warrant wandering around in public with your snake around your neck, anyone who does this and thinks it is not for the sake of their ego is kidding themselves. Contrary to what some people might want to believe, snakes don't like going out for big adventures - they aren't dogs. Yes, they often become alert, look around more, etc etc - similar to what often happens to a person when they are absolutely terrified. Snakes on 'big adventures' can also become 'unusually docile' - humans who are abducted often go into shock and behave in this way too, becoming extremely submissive to avoid being harmed be the person holding them captive. Snake behaviour is very easy to misread and it's interesting to see that the more experience people have with snakes the less they think of them as cutesy pets. If you want something to cuddle and socialise with, get a dog or a girlfriend. If you want to impress the public, learn to juggle something.

It is insane that in some cases people can freely take their reptiles to reptile meetings. Other than a pet shop or a vet's clinic, reptile meetings are the place most likely for diseases to spread.. If you have a snake with a problem, the last thing it needs is to be dragged along to a meeting and the last thing any other reptiles at the meeting need is to have exposure to a snake with a problem. In virtually all cases, taking reptiles to a meeting is done for the sake of ego and at the expense of the animal.
 
That last paragraph is oh so true!!!! In fact now you put it like that, I do have to agree with the whole lot. It would be nice to be able to take the snake out but as you state, it's just not the right thing to do.
 
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