New Victorian DSE Wildlife Act and Regulations for 2012

[Amazing Amazon]

As some people may be aware and others are probably not the whole DSE Wildlife Act and Regulations in Victoria are to be be totally renewed next year.This basically means a whole new set of regulations to be revised and renewed to over take the existing one.I have personally spoken to senior officials and one of the main topics seems to be the recent issue with crossbred pythons.As it stands in Victoria at the moment Morelia Spilota Variegata covers
-All Coastal Carpet Varieties
-Imbricata (WA)
-Jungles
-Murray/Vic Carpets
-Darwin
This means that as the law in Victoria stands at the moment crossing/hybridising any of the above is totally legal as they are all classed as the same.As the new "Jaguar morph" is now a topic of heavy discussion in recent threads I wonder how it will affect the legalities of owning one or any other cross breeding of the previously "variegata" varieties.The main issues I can see is how to determine that a Morelia Spilota ...... is actually a "pure" variety should they be categorised into their own species.I am posting for some constructive comments and am not looking for debates on Jags on crosses.
Paul

 

[bensen]

M.s ssp should not even be on licence. they are virtually domesticated and it serves no conservation benefit to keep records to prove lawful acquisition. it is just red tape that the hobby and dse don't need.
the issue of hybridising and mutations again should be of no concern to dse, there is no conservation impact resulting from it which warrants them even having an opinion.

 

[Red-Ink]

A problem I see in Vic changing and recognising the sub-species is the animals registered in the recorded old system. Buy a M. s. cheynei pair now from someone interstate and comes in under the blanket code... two years later you breed them and the regulations have change and the progeny are M. s. cheynei and not the M. s. veriegata they came in as.

 

[Amazing Amazon]

Totally agreed but it looks like Childreni are the species that will be put onto schedule 5 i.e no licence required from what I have heard.Hopefully the will also name Turtles as Turtles and not Tortoises as existing listings state.
Paul

A problem I see in Vic changing and recognising the sub-species is the animals registered in the recorded old system. Buy a M. s. cheynei pair now from some one interstate and comes in under the blanket code... two years later you breed them and the regulations have change and the progeny are M. s. cheynei and not the M. s. veriegata they came in as.

I thought this would be a problem also but they did it with the Childrens Python family (stimsoni/childreni/maculosa) that originally all came under Childrens Pyhtons but all we did was swap them over in our record books and that seemed pretty much trouble free.
Paul

 

[Red-Ink]

Totally agreed but it looks like Childreni are the species that will be put onto schedule 5 i.e no licence required from what I have heard.Hopefully the will also name Turtles as Turtles and not Tortoises as exististing listings state.
Paul

Childreni...? As in A. childreni or the term of all of Antaresias belonging to the childrens complex.

 

[Kurto]

How can you cross breed a sub species that all have the same DNA? Plus as was said above, they should be classified as captive pets and serve no real conservation purpose at all...

Good luck to all victorian keepers. Let hope your authorities aren't as pathetic to deal with as the DECC here in nsw.

 

[Renenet]

Hopefully the will also name Turtles as Turtles and not Tortoises as existing listings state.

What's the difference between a turtle and a tortoise? I've never been able to get this clear. Thanks.

 

[Amazing Amazon]

It was only a few years ago that they actually separated the species.All 3 previously just got entered in the record book as childreni.Even now I separate all 3 but i am pretty sure as long as you separate stimsons(large blotched) the other 2 (macs and childrens)can still come under the one title of "childreni"
Paul
Paul

 

[Renenet]

Childreni...? As in A. childreni or the term of all of Antaresias belonging to the childrens complex.

Good question. If it's the latter I'll have to get a GTP just to make my licence worth keeping.

 

[Amazing Amazon]

What's the difference between a turtle and a tortoise? I've never been able to get this clear. Thanks.

Well thats another can of worms but if you talk to experts in the field they are Turtles but maybe a discussion for another thread.Funny though how they classify a Murray River as a Turtle and a Longneck as Tortoise.Work that one out.
Paul

 

[Dannyboi]

What's the difference between a turtle and a tortoise? I've never been able to get this clear. Thanks.

They are in a different Family Tortoise is under Testudinidae and Turtles are classed under Chelidae.

And Long necks are again listed under as Chelidae so its an error.

 

[Amazing Amazon]

How can you cross breed a sub species that all have the same DNA? Plus as was said above, they should be classified as captive pets and serve no real conservation purpose at all...

Good luck to all victorian keepers. Let hope your authorities aren't as pathetic to deal with as the DECC here in nsw.

I think this will be the major hurdle if they decide to try and separate the species.Have or did they separate DNA from macs,stimsons and childreni or did they make this up as they went along?
Paul

 

[Red-Ink]

I thought this would be a problem also but they did it with the Childrens Python family (stimsoni/childreni/maculosa) that originally all came under Childrens Pyhtons but all we did was swap them over in our record books and that seemed pretty much trouble free.
Paul

What about what they came in as through import papers? Did you just inform them of the change for their records as well?

 

[Jay84]

So the carpet python localities are all going to be split? So when is this coming into effect?

 

[Amazing Amazon]

We just used our judgement and changed them under a different classification.I know this sounds very unorganised and it probably was for most as a lot of shops would not even know the difference themselves.Even though different species went in the book as the same we always labelled them in their different species so it was not that hard for us to do. Even still now when we get a count done by DSE they usually just count the total of the 3 species and as long as it is the same as all 3 added together they are happy.Although it is quite easy to tell the difference between the 3 with experience, the vast majority still wouldn't have a clue.This is probably the main hurdle they will have if they try to separate morelia spilota into all completely different species.For example the breeder i have been getting my Diamonds off for the last 10 years who has as pure a Diamond as you can get occasionally has the odd one pop out that you would swear was an intergrade.Even if DSE choose to do so which has been said is hard when a lot of them have very little, if any, genetically difference and proving a crossbred for certain would basically be a near impossibility.I can only assume that it is possibly a way to try and control the possible influx of Jaguar pythons on the market but i think they will be fighting a lost cause if illegal crossbreds is going to be their point of deterrence.
Paul

So the carpet python localities are all going to be split? So when is this coming into effect?

It is only being spoken about but the whole Wildlife Act in Victoria is getting rewritten next year and I am just relaying comments that have been mentioned to me.Everything I have spoken about is just talk at this stage and it is later in the year that they will have their major meeting regarding all issues regarding the new act.
Paul

 

[Asharee133]

are womas going on the Basic too? lmao

 

[Red-Ink]

The problem would be for the most of us that bought from interstate is that they came in as variegata... returned on paper every year as variegata, but know breed as cheynei or mcdowelli? Bells would ring loud at the DSE and I'm pretty sure people would get some interesting visitors. The right thing for the DSE to do is let us change the classifications on the records as well by submission if they go ahead (which may cause problems as well) as people may not entirely be truthful.

If they are doing this to stem the tide of "hybrids" without identifying whats here it's always going to be just variegata. All that needs too be done is say my "variegatas" bred it.... afterall their all variegatas at the moment lol.

 

[Amazing Amazon]

There is no easy fix especially when there is no unity within departments from state to state.I am still sitting on the bench as I cannot really see how separation of all Morelia Spilota......is really going to achieve much. I know they don't the whole "Jag" thing but i really can't see how separation of species will make them "illegal" by doing it.I can only presume that this is the main reason for wanting to do it.If it was to happen the main problem might be that instead of them proving a snake is a crossbred people may have to prove that it's not if they have doubt!
Paul

are womas going on the Basic too? lmao

I know it has been submitted to put them on basic licence by many people.

 

[snakehandler]

One of the reasons the Morelia group and many other subspecies that are not recognized are being looked into is the restriction on demonstrators to only 10 of each species code(also under review). There are many areas that need to be fixed in the Victorian system, and unity between the states is paramount, but unlikely to happen especially when you look at the new Tassie proposals!

 

[Amazing Amazon]

Why would a demonstrator need more than 10 species of each animal for demonstrating?