Rabbits ad food?

[Nighthawk]

Our BHPs love rabbits. Unfortunately they give them the runs :?

 

[cris]

I don't understand where people get the idea from that any feeder animal should be thawed out in warm or hot water? Is this an urban myth, told from one keeper to the next, for generation after generation?

No just the quickest and most effective way of thawing food. Also when feeding pythons that use heat to detect prey it helps with tricky feeders, probably would have been worth trying before you nearly killed that python you force fed (im assuming without any idea on how to force feed safely). Not all snakes are adapted to eating rotting food, your advice could potentially lead to deaths, espeically if dealing with food that has been purchased and has an unknown history.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

cris: Maybe you should put a frozen steak in hot water and see what happens to the meat? Cooked on the outside and frozen on the inside. As for the one snake that I almost killed, we all know how he is doing!

 

[cris]

cris: Maybe you should put a frozen steak in hot water and see what happens to the meat? Cooked on the outside and frozen on the inside. As for the one snake that I almost killed, we all know how he is doing!

I often thaw my steak in hot water, just not hot enough to cook it. I should have mentioned above not to use boiling water, but thought that would be common sense, much like not force feeding a snake when you dont know what your doing. I admire your honesty and being open about making such a stupid mistake, so that others can learn from it but thats the only complement i have for you (especially when you said you didnt believe in force feeding or something? lol). As for suggesting leaving food to thaw for 2 days that is just asking for trouble and terrible advice IMO.

Unfortunetly i often forget that many people dont have so called common sense.

 

[slim6y]

cris: Maybe you should put a frozen steak in hot water and see what happens to the meat? Cooked on the outside and frozen on the inside. As for the one snake that I almost killed, we all know how he is doing!

Apples and watermelons... Not even closely related in anyway what-so-ever.

The beef steak is a cut of meat, usually muscle with some fat. No organs.

A dead rat is exactly that (or rabbit).

Defrosting quickly has its advantages - 1) it shortens the time that bacteria can grow on the incredibly large surface area of a dead rat. 2) It stops food from spoiling. 3) It adds heat to the food (core temperatures of rats are slightly warmer than humans I believe, sitting closer to 38'C - room temperature usually 25'C).

Adding to this - certain things grow bacteria faster than others - blood especially! Blood (and milk) is very attractive to bacteria. Your rat should contain some blood. Organs often harbour small amounts of bacteria, when alive, the body helps keep most of that bacteria in check. When dead - that bacteria (if a decomposer) will multiply very fast.

Defrosting over two hours is healthier for the snake (as food degrades very quickly nutritionally) and better for you too... Why would you do it any other way?

Especially when living in such a hot climate as we do.

Still - I won't ever suggest changing - I just think the risk of slow defrosting is much higher and the risks between defrosting steaks and rats are entirely different.

 

[ozziepythons]

Someone should tell this olive python its asking for trouble and is setting a bad example.....

 

[cris]

Someone should tell this olive python its asking for trouble and is setting a bad example.....
View attachment 170684

Nah its chilling the food not defrosting it Also your pic is a photoshop job it was actually eating a large pachyderm.

 

[ozziepythons]

Nah its chilling the food not defrosting it Also your pic is a photoshop job it was actually eating a large pachyderm.

LOL that is a great photoshop job Cris!

 

[cris]

LOL that is a great photoshop job Cris!

I cant claim credit for this, Moosenoose provided the real pic. The government did a photoshop job to cover it up to make it look like a macropod.

 

[ozziepythons]

I cant claim credit for this, Moosenoose provided the real pic. The government did a photoshop job to cover it up to make it look like a macropod.

Yeah the gov's really shonky as they do the same with black leopard (panther) pics from the bush, photoshop them out and put moggies in their place lol. That way they don't have to alknowledge them. Denial is not just a river in Egypt....

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

cris: I am not going to attack you like you constantly attack me and others on this forum. You should make sure that the advice you are offering is as sound as what you think it is?! Hot water is just what it is, hot water. Proteins denaturate at any temperature higher than body temperature. Maybe you should look into the science involved in protein denaturation. You also throw the force feeding incident in here to try and discredit my opinion by using another incident out of context. Your opinion about thawing out rats and rabbits are just that, an opinion! There is very little scientific data to substantiate your opinion and give it any form of merit. We do what works for us and that is our opinion! Our way is about as safe as your way. Some people just can't get their point across with clever debating but rather resort to insults to get their point across. Good on you cris.

 

[wokka]

Wokka: We leave steaks in the fridge for up to a week before we eat them. I know it's different to letting frozen rodents sit at room temperature overnight; I do however think that we as humans try to over sterilise captive management of reptiles. What would carry the most pathogens? A rabbit that has been frozen for a month or a wild caught rabbit? How long is a piece of string? There are no set rules in nature. We make the rules in a captive environment! Sometimes these rules are based on fact but a majority of time the rules are there because we heard it from somebody else as second hand information. We do put leftover rabbits in a fridge once thawed and feed them over a period of days till they are all used. We don't ever have sick snakes and have not lost one due to this feeding regime.

I agree we often try to over sterilize stuff.
A problem with saying that "it works in the bush" is that in the bush the majority of snakes die, before old age, which is why we are not over run with wild snakes. In captivity we expect every snake to be a winner and so have to minimise the chances of death. I dont have evidence but i guess that some snakes do die in the wild from eating carion with too high a bacterial level, whilst other snakes may eat infected food without problem. I dont know how to tell one from the other and so dont take the chance. Having said that I to have snakes which have not eaten straight away but have eaten say two days later when the food item is at least a little on the smelly side.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Thanks for agreeing to disagree Wokka. Its refreshing to have your type of response in a thread. I guess you really have to keep more than a dozen snakes to understand just how varied the individuals response to food can be. I can understand your point of trying to keep them in a manner that promotes old age. Both of the methods argued about in this thread are not recommended by the different health and safety authorities. The recommended method is placing the food in a fridge at 5 degrees celcius until thawed.

 

[Snake-Supplies]

Woah woah woah,
Come now, I didn't want to cause an argument... I was only asking a question.
Everyone has their own view's on thing's, I never asked about getting the bacteria growth or anything, just an easy way to thaw them out... in which you both answered,

With my rat's I boil them because I only have pup rat's and it's quick and easy to just stick them in a glad bag and let them simmer for 10 minutes or until worm and soft.
Mmmm, yummy.

But because a rabbit is allot bigger, allot fatter than a rat, I was just basically asking how you's do it...
Sorry for posting such a stupid question I guess,

Cheer's for all of you's who contributed.
I'll be getting some Easter bunnies when Scarlet grows a bit.
Thanks,

Regards
Joshua

 

[ozziepythons]

I agree we often try to over sterilize stuff.
A problem with saying that "it works in the bush" is that in the bush the majority of snakes die, before old age, which is why we are not over run with wild snakes. In captivity we expect every snake to be a winner and so have to minimise the chances of death. I dont have evidence but i guess that some snakes do die in the wild from eating carion with too high a bacterial level, whilst other snakes may eat infected food without problem. I dont know how to tell one from the other and so dont take the chance. Having said that I to have snakes which have not eaten straight away but have eaten say two days later when the food item is at least a little on the smelly side.

Very well said, an excellent response. You have clearly given this much thought, to your credit.

 

[ShaunMorelia]

A bucket full of hot tap water does the trick for us.
But then again I only have 1 snake that is large enough to take a rabbit atm.
As for leaving them out to defrost, I hate the smell of them when still frozen let alone sitting at room temprature over night so quicker the better for me. Each to their own.

 

[Snakelove]

Woah woah woah,
Come now, I didn't want to cause an argument... I was only asking a question.
Everyone has their own view's on thing's, I never asked about getting the bacteria growth or anything, just an easy way to thaw them out... in which you both answered,

With my rat's I boil them because I only have pup rat's and it's quick and easy to just stick them in a glad bag and let them simmer for 10 minutes or until worm and soft.
Mmmm, yummy.

But because a rabbit is allot bigger, allot fatter than a rat, I was just basically asking how you's do it...
Sorry for posting such a stupid question I guess,

Cheer's for all of you's who contributed.
I'll be getting some Easter bunnies when Scarlet grows a bit.
Thanks,

Regards
Joshua

You should know that almost everytime you ask a question it always gets carried away and gets into an interesting discussion on APS.

 

[slim6y]

The recommended method is placing the food in a fridge at 5 degrees celcius until thawed.

For a christmas turkey.... a number 18 chicken.... not a defrosting rat for consumption by a snake.

If this is the recommended method - please supply evidence that will give reason that this method is preferred for feeding whole food items to snakes.

Remembering - a whole turkey or chicken still does not contain organs or (much) blood.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Please supply evidence that it's not?

 

[hornet]

I defrost my feed items by placing them in hot tap water, i wouldnt use boiling water or boil them on the stove top as i would assume that would cook them to some extent, would probably cause no harm tho. I dont see Leaving at room temp overnight causing probs, we often defrost food for human consumption by leaving it out overnight or for half a day and so far its had no ill effects. I wouldnt trust leaving a food item out for 2 days tho