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Most importantly boa,what do you class this snake in question as.By looking at it,imo it has more characteristics as a McDowelli in saying that NOT ALL jungles are yellow-black etc,or have cross-bones etc on their head.Ive seen a few Atherton Jungles that look simarlar to the one question....
 
Well interestingly enough yes it does, I tried to get a photo of it but he wasn't very cooperative. I'll try again. Now doesn't that add further to the confusion ?

Does that animal have a nice blue mouth?

I get local carpets around here with perfect skull n crossbones head patterns however they aren't jungles,I'll try dig up a pic of an ugly I caught once with the jungle type head pattern however everything else about this animal was not jungle like and more coastal like which is what it was.
 
So we are back to the original question, what makes a Jungle a Jungle ?
 
In my opinion this is what a jungle should look like;)
 

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This girl is a pure Tully jungle, but her colouration is far from the standard black and gold jungle that you see everywhere. She's fully grown and only 4 foot and was bred by Roger Lester, so before people start yelling 'ITS A COASTAL', she isn't LOL!

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This girl is a pure Tully jungle, but her colouration is far from the standard black and gold jungle that you see everywhere. She's fully grown and only 4 foot and was bred by Roger Lester, so before people start yelling 'ITS A COASTAL', she isn't LOL!

Lilly2-1.jpg

lily7jpg.jpg

lily9.jpg

lily8.jpg

lily4-1.jpg
beautiful snake mate great colourations on it
 
ash, that animal you put up in your first post looks (to me) like an unusual coloured shane black line or maybe a SB line crossed with a cape york carpet?

why I say this is that r pattern on its head which I've seen before in Shanes line.
probably wrong on this but Im curious to its origins :D
 
Colin, I honestly couldn't say whether it is a Shane Black animal or not to be fair, the person I got it from didn't get it from SB. That animal isn't the focus of this thread really, I'm looking for opinions as to what people look at when deciding if a particular snake is a mcdowelli or cheynei. So far it seems there are no hard and fast visual markers that absolutely guarantee a snake is one or the other.
 
Wells & Wellington paper from the 80's.

I don't know about that Australis, surely the opinions of the instant experts from around here would mean more than that. ;)
 
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This girl is a pure Tully jungle, but her colouration is far from the standard black and gold jungle that you see everywhere. She's fully grown and only 4 foot and was bred by Roger Lester, so before people start yelling 'ITS A COASTAL', she isn't LOL!

Lilly2-1.jpg

lily7jpg.jpg

lily9.jpg

lily8.jpg

lily4-1.jpg
Imagine puting a albino darwin male over her.............................;):lol:
 
This is a good looking Jungle IMO and has the attitude too As she is a nasty little girl she be around 3 years old
IMG_4355.jpg
 
Although it is nice to see peoples jungles it isn't really answering the question, no-one seems very keen to commit to actually answering, what makes a Jungle a Jungle ? Come on guys, I know you are watching ;)
 
Boa. I think you already have the answer to the question and proved the point that there is very little difference between some Cheynei and Mcdowelli. Until we have DNA data to compare with I guess we will have to go about identifying these species/sub species the old fashioned way. By locality, body size, colour, pattern and scale counts. It seems it is very difficult in the instances of coastal Cheynei and Mcdowelli due to the huge variation the I believe exists across the range.

What are your thoughts on the subject?
 
I hope some one can answer your question boa as i dont know,could the cape york be a natrual intergrade as the port mac or wauchope (diamondxcoastal) , (junglexcoastal)in the cape york region?
 
You asked for it Ash :)

Regardless of what the Morelia complex becomes after taxonomists are finished toying with the genus, I believe that an animal should be able to be visually I.D'd in most cases. Obviously you will find the odd animal that is unusual to an area.

I have encounted wild animals from Northern NSW, through the Southern Brigalow, through N.T to Cape York. Out of literally hundreds of Carpets, there have not been too many that do not fall into one of the current sub species.

One area that does cause some confusion lies in animals from the Tablelands region. I always hear people stating that you do NOT get ‘True Jungles’ from Atherton. I believe that you actually get three differing forms of Morelia at Atherton. I am talking about Atherton area itself, not the Atherton Tablelands.

One form (#1), resembles your typical N.Q dry country Carpet that you find around Innot Hot Springs, Koah, Mareeba, Mt Carbine, Lakeland and Laura and Coen. This form in colouration, size and temperament typically resembles the Carpets that you can find throughout S.E Queensland with an average size of 8 feet. These animals show a lot of variation and can consist of grey, cream, tan, brown and dull orange colouration. Patterning can be either semi broken stripes, blotches and bands. These forms are present in the dryer areas of Atherton though are not overly common within 10 kms of the Atherton CBD.
An example of this form,

capecarpet628x800.jpg

capecarpets004800x617.jpg



The second form (#2) resembles your typical smaller Palmerston type Jungle that is found throughout Deeral, Garradunga, East Palmerston, Mila Mila, Nerada Tea Plantation and South Johnson. This form reaches approx 4.5 - 5 feet in length and is of Black and Yellow colouration with heavy melanin forming throughout the yellow after approx 2.5 feet in length. I have only found 3 areas within 10 kms of the Atherton Township where this form is present. They are found in Rainforest near permanent streams and springs. This is a friends property where I have only encounted the Small Black and Yellow (Palmerston type) Carpets that I will always call 'True Atherton Jungles'

Atherton Rainforest Carpets habitat
IMG_2240400x600.jpg

Typical example of an animal from these areas
Cheynei1600x400.jpg

Jungle-1.jpg




The third form (#3) is one that I find most unusual. Although not usually as striking in terms of their Yellow colourations, this form can reach a max of 10 feet in length and show the strong skull and crossbones head patterns that are typical of the smaller Palmerston type animals. These animals can be found in areas between the two other area forms of Atherton Carpets. Mature specimens are most common between 7-9 feet and usually consist of light Yellow, Tan and Black colouration. Patterning usually (not always) consists of stripes and blotches.
Form#3
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This info is from an area less than 20 kms square around the Township of Atherton. Animals that live within the 3 main habitats encountered around Atherton will fall into one of these groups depending on what habitat they are from e.g.,
Rainforest, Dry Sclerophyll / Eucalypt Forrest and Melaleuca swamp areas bordering Sclerophyll and Eucalypt.


I have found animals from the Lakefield N.P drainage that resemble unusual looking North Western Carpets. (This photo was taken by Rex)
cooktown_female_201_437.jpg


I have also found animals from St Ronan’s station (40 Mile Scrub) and a station NW of Cooktown that resemble Cape Tribulation animals
Hopevaleroad400D005.jpg



Depending on how picky one wanted to be, you could pull apart every 'individual' colour form of Carpet from Tully to Ravenshoe to Bloomfield River and end up with 20 different area type locales.

This is my opinion only from spending every weekend possible in the areas mentioned. I believe that Far North Queensland Carpets are the most complex genus of any Morelia in Australia in terms of differing 'Area type locales'.
Even if DNA proves that all of QLD's Carpet's are the same, I will still call a Jungle a Jungle a SE QLD Coastal a SE QLD Coastal. For the few 'forms' of Carpet that I believe do not fall into a already existing sub species of Carpet (e.g. Some animals from Cape York) I will continue to call them area form locales such a ‘Cape York Carpet from Coen’, or a ‘Dry Country Atherton Carpet’.
Experts flame away ;)
Cheers,
Nick
 
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