S
Snowman
Guest
Pet keepers don't have too.... Pet snakes are just that. They can never be used to replenish wild stock. I keep mainly local specific. But I don't care what anyone else keeps.
Why why why!!!!!!
Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:
- Status
Hamalicious
Well-Known Member
Bang on mate. Just because it's in a tub or enclosure, doesn't mean it's natural requirements no longer matter. I learn a whole lot more seeing animals in the wild than i do from care sheets.
B
Bluetongue1
Guest
Tesla and Trimer, I don't mind that you strongly disagree with me, but having read your response I am confused as to what exactly it is you disagree with in what I said.
At no stage did I indicate that there was not good information available on the net or within APS threads. What I said was that someone with no background is unable to discern what is good and what is rubbish, hence the need for clear guidance. Today I tried a little exercise and read the first six google sites for "Bearded Dragon care". There were difference in information on diet, contradictions on substrate use, different supplement regimes, one only talked about food size, differences in recommended lighting, recommended temperatures varied, the initial enclosure varied from an aquarium to a professionally produced viv and so on. An easily repeated investigation if you have the time. This is why I stated that newbies need "firm guidance" (not "spoon feeding" as you have mentioned).
To illustrate in real life, not that long ago a newbie wanted help on looking after a hatchling woma, particularly the sort of enclosure. A number of people responded and I gave her the the web address of the Southern Cross Articles by Doc Rock and the APS thread on How to Make a Click Clack. A few days later she replied, thanking all who had helped, saying the information provided was just what she needed, in particularly the click clack thread which was a huge help. She was given clear guidance! She did the work. She reaped the benefits. I am at a loss as to how "fast tracking possession" or "spoon feeding" can be extracted from that.
The other point I made was that: "I personally believe it is the responsibility of the seller to ensure, as best they can, that anyone buying an animal is cognisant of its requirements and how they may be best met". You stated: "The care of the animal is the buyers responsibility once it leaves the sellers possession". Both these statements are correct in my book.
What does confuse me is that you made a sarcastic remark about breeders following up on a sale and in the very breath you say: "Don't get me wrong I am always willing to help out a buyer and even give a follow up service should the need arise, I will also answer questions online regarding the husbandry of species which don't have much in the way of information..."
A similar thing with my suggestion of including a book as part of the sale. You say the book should have been purchased and used ahead of time and yet draw an analogy with driving that belittles it worth. The ideal situation is that a potential purchaser gets the book to read first. If that is not possible then it is part of the transaction and it is then encumbent on the buyer to do the reading ASAP. While it may not be the ideal situation it is a realistic and desirable alternative compared to selling snakes with no information provided.
It does appear that you have a presumption that those intending to purchase a reptile should know they need to find out about their specific care ahead of purchase. On this point we clearly do differ. It is not an uncommon experience for people to purchase a pet they know nothing about and to have no hassles with... dogs, cats, budgies, canaries, goldfish, rats, mice, guinea pigs to name a few of the more common ones. Everything you need to know, and what you need to keep them, can be packaged up in the one transaction. In addition to that a lot of people think of reptiles as able to look after themselves because it is not uncommon to see them in your garden, down the park, on the golf course etc. Combine that perception with previous experience of easy to keep uncomplicated pets, and you have an unwitting potential purchaser with no idea at all that reptiles do have some very specific requirements. So if the seller doesn't tell them, how do they find out?
One last point that nothing to do with the above. It is my belief that many keepers start out with a reptile simply bought as an interesting pet. They then progress from pet keeper to herpetological enthusiast over time. The rest of us were born with it in our blood. Lol.
Blue
At no stage did I indicate that there was not good information available on the net or within APS threads. What I said was that someone with no background is unable to discern what is good and what is rubbish, hence the need for clear guidance. Today I tried a little exercise and read the first six google sites for "Bearded Dragon care". There were difference in information on diet, contradictions on substrate use, different supplement regimes, one only talked about food size, differences in recommended lighting, recommended temperatures varied, the initial enclosure varied from an aquarium to a professionally produced viv and so on. An easily repeated investigation if you have the time. This is why I stated that newbies need "firm guidance" (not "spoon feeding" as you have mentioned).
To illustrate in real life, not that long ago a newbie wanted help on looking after a hatchling woma, particularly the sort of enclosure. A number of people responded and I gave her the the web address of the Southern Cross Articles by Doc Rock and the APS thread on How to Make a Click Clack. A few days later she replied, thanking all who had helped, saying the information provided was just what she needed, in particularly the click clack thread which was a huge help. She was given clear guidance! She did the work. She reaped the benefits. I am at a loss as to how "fast tracking possession" or "spoon feeding" can be extracted from that.
The other point I made was that: "I personally believe it is the responsibility of the seller to ensure, as best they can, that anyone buying an animal is cognisant of its requirements and how they may be best met". You stated: "The care of the animal is the buyers responsibility once it leaves the sellers possession". Both these statements are correct in my book.
What does confuse me is that you made a sarcastic remark about breeders following up on a sale and in the very breath you say: "Don't get me wrong I am always willing to help out a buyer and even give a follow up service should the need arise, I will also answer questions online regarding the husbandry of species which don't have much in the way of information..."
A similar thing with my suggestion of including a book as part of the sale. You say the book should have been purchased and used ahead of time and yet draw an analogy with driving that belittles it worth. The ideal situation is that a potential purchaser gets the book to read first. If that is not possible then it is part of the transaction and it is then encumbent on the buyer to do the reading ASAP. While it may not be the ideal situation it is a realistic and desirable alternative compared to selling snakes with no information provided.
It does appear that you have a presumption that those intending to purchase a reptile should know they need to find out about their specific care ahead of purchase. On this point we clearly do differ. It is not an uncommon experience for people to purchase a pet they know nothing about and to have no hassles with... dogs, cats, budgies, canaries, goldfish, rats, mice, guinea pigs to name a few of the more common ones. Everything you need to know, and what you need to keep them, can be packaged up in the one transaction. In addition to that a lot of people think of reptiles as able to look after themselves because it is not uncommon to see them in your garden, down the park, on the golf course etc. Combine that perception with previous experience of easy to keep uncomplicated pets, and you have an unwitting potential purchaser with no idea at all that reptiles do have some very specific requirements. So if the seller doesn't tell them, how do they find out?
One last point that nothing to do with the above. It is my belief that many keepers start out with a reptile simply bought as an interesting pet. They then progress from pet keeper to herpetological enthusiast over time. The rest of us were born with it in our blood. Lol.
Blue
Newhere
Well-Known Member
I'm new and I don't have any reptiles yet and while looking up info on here I find a lot of threads about people that have just got an animal and they need advice and info on how to care for it. It annoys me a little bit as I think they should of done their research first like I am doing but everone is different and I would still help them if I could. It makes me wonder who sold these people animals and let them walk off without even knowing its basic requirements?
I asked some stupid questions when I joined up here and I got ignored even though my thread recieved lots of views but its not because I'm too lazy to search, its because some of the info on here and other sites varies and is never the same or in complete detail. Also alot of the info on here is just peoples opinions and of course none of you can agree on anything so there will be ten different answers to one question all wrapped up in a single thread
There is a lot of questions that have already been answered but to be honest most of the search results are over five years old and how do I know if the information is accurate as it certainly isn't up to date. The question is do you guys want an active forum where people come to learn and help out less experienced keepers and generally help the hobby advance and grow or do you want a giant archive of OLD posts and threads full of information that people can search and try and decode the best method from the various and sometimes plain wrong answers? Some of you have a lot of knowledge that is easily shared and the majority of users on here are Australian so wake up Australia get off your high horses and help out the people that need it to keep their pets happy and healthy.
I wont even bother posting threads on here if I need help because I don't like to be made to feel like an idiot by some people just because I want the advice of an experienced keeper.
I asked some stupid questions when I joined up here and I got ignored even though my thread recieved lots of views but its not because I'm too lazy to search, its because some of the info on here and other sites varies and is never the same or in complete detail. Also alot of the info on here is just peoples opinions and of course none of you can agree on anything so there will be ten different answers to one question all wrapped up in a single thread
There is a lot of questions that have already been answered but to be honest most of the search results are over five years old and how do I know if the information is accurate as it certainly isn't up to date. The question is do you guys want an active forum where people come to learn and help out less experienced keepers and generally help the hobby advance and grow or do you want a giant archive of OLD posts and threads full of information that people can search and try and decode the best method from the various and sometimes plain wrong answers? Some of you have a lot of knowledge that is easily shared and the majority of users on here are Australian so wake up Australia get off your high horses and help out the people that need it to keep their pets happy and healthy.
I wont even bother posting threads on here if I need help because I don't like to be made to feel like an idiot by some people just because I want the advice of an experienced keeper.
I'm new and I don't have any reptiles yet and while looking up info on here I find a lot of threads about people that have just got an animal and they need advice and info on how to care for it. It annoys me a little bit as I think they should of done their research first like I am doing but everone is different and I would still help them if I could. It makes me wonder who sold these people animals and let them walk off without even knowing its basic requirements?
I asked some stupid questions when I joined up here and I got ignored even though my thread recieved lots of views but its not because I'm too lazy to search, its because some of the info on here and other sites varies and is never the same or in complete detail. Also alot of the info on here is just peoples opinions and of course none of you can agree on anything so there will be ten different answers to one question all wrapped up in a single thread
There is a lot of questions that have already been answered but to be honest most of the search results are over five years old and how do I know if the information is accurate as it certainly isn't up to date. The question is do you guys want an active forum where people come to learn and help out less experienced keepers and generally help the hobby advance and grow or do you want a giant archive of OLD posts and threads full of information that people can search and try and decode the best method from the various and sometimes plain wrong answers? Some of you have a lot of knowledge that is easily shared and the majority of users on here are Australian so wake up Australia get off your high horses and help out the people that need it to keep their pets happy and healthy.
I wont even bother posting threads on here if I need help because I don't like to be made to feel like an idiot by some people just because I want the advice of an experienced keeper.
This!!!
Well, most of it lol.
I think what can be taken from the forum (as a newbie) is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. There are certainly wrong ways to do things, but that doesn't mean there's only one right way to do it.
There are lots of people with lots of knowledge and over time you learn who is the most switched on, even though their manner is less than desirable.
I think something that is important to state when posting about getting a new herp is briefly state what info you have found and ask if it's correct and if anyone can expand on it. Asking a straight out questions like "how often do I feed it" or "how do I keep it warm" are easy ways to get either ignored or flamed. Show a little incentive and awareness and questions will be answered appropriately.
Just my 2 cents...
Newhere
Well-Known Member
Hey lawra, thats exactly what I did and still only a couple people helped, its not hard to tell who the good people are. I am very thankful to the ones that put the effort in as I think thats what being Australian is all about. Its about mateship and helping out everyone no matter how silly the question might be. I don't know how to do quotes from other threads but if you look in introductions my thread was called "hey everyone" and I wasn't asking straight out questions, they are fairly lengthy and detailed.
I just think its silly that when there is a thread on jags or morphs or albinos it ends up five pages long with heaps of comments but some people will ignore a thread with someone asking for help. These same people will sit on here and yap on about contributing to the hobby while they don't contribute any info to the younger generation of hobbyists because "they can just search it themselves"
If that is your attitude it is plain unfair that the first 100 people that asked a silly question got an answer and the rest can "search and decode" as I like to call it
Anyway thats just life and it takes all different types to make the world go round and luckily there will always be a few good people to answer the so called silly questions.
I just think its silly that when there is a thread on jags or morphs or albinos it ends up five pages long with heaps of comments but some people will ignore a thread with someone asking for help. These same people will sit on here and yap on about contributing to the hobby while they don't contribute any info to the younger generation of hobbyists because "they can just search it themselves"
If that is your attitude it is plain unfair that the first 100 people that asked a silly question got an answer and the rest can "search and decode" as I like to call it
Anyway thats just life and it takes all different types to make the world go round and luckily there will always be a few good people to answer the so called silly questions.
Hey lawra, thats exactly what I did and still only a couple people helped, its not hard to tell who the good people are. I am very thankful to the ones that put the effort in as I think thats what being Australian is all about. Its about mateship and helping out everyone no matter how silly the question might be. I don't know how to do quotes from other threads but if you look in introductions my thread was called "hey everyone" and I wasn't asking straight out questions, they are fairly lengthy and detailed.
I just think its silly that when there is a thread on jags or morphs or albinos it ends up five pages long with heaps of comments but some people will ignore a thread with someone asking for help. These same people will sit on here and yap on about contributing to the hobby while they don't contribute any info to the younger generation of hobbyists because "they can just search it themselves"
If that is your attitude it is plain unfair that the first 100 people that asked a silly question got an answer and the rest can "search and decode" as I like to call it
Anyway thats just life and it takes all different types to make the world go round and luckily there will always be a few good people to answer the so called silly questions.
Agreed
there are some really helpful people out there though, and for that I am thankful. I am very lucky that the guy I bought my woma from has continued to give me advice and has been an absolute godsend. I am actually buying my second snake from him also I don't recall your thread in particular, but there are sooo many things to read on here that unless it's directly relevant to me it tends to go in one ear and out the other (like all the talk about jags and morphs lol)
I have made some lovely friends on this forum though
so nice people are definitely out there. That's just life though, some people are nice and some aren't. I have learnt so much on here though, and will continue to as I have not yet read every single post on here (I'm getting there though, insomnia ftw)
B
Bluetongue1
Guest
It feels strangely inappropriate to provide "likes" for statements about shortcomings. They were, of course, provided as recognition for having the backbone to stand up and be counted.
People vary and some individuals who join the forum seem to delight in the attention while they waste the time of others. That is still no excuse to tar everyone with the same brush.
Other individuals seem to have had a much smoother and virtually trouble free introduction to the forum. Possibly luck rather than managing it but I don't really know. Irrespective, it is very disappointing to hear of your experiences. I am sorry it has been that way for you.
Blue
People vary and some individuals who join the forum seem to delight in the attention while they waste the time of others. That is still no excuse to tar everyone with the same brush.
Other individuals seem to have had a much smoother and virtually trouble free introduction to the forum. Possibly luck rather than managing it but I don't really know. Irrespective, it is very disappointing to hear of your experiences. I am sorry it has been that way for you.
Blue
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm pleased with my experience on here personally
it's all part of learning and growth. I give out "likes" in the same way I give out smiles: lots of and regularly
S
Snowman
Guest
Hey lawra, thats exactly what I did and still only a couple people helped, its not hard to tell who the good people are. I am very thankful to the ones that put the effort in as I think thats what being Australian is all about. Its about mateship and helping out everyone no matter how silly the question might be. I don't know how to do quotes from other threads but if you look in introductions my thread was called "hey everyone" and I wasn't asking straight out questions, they are fairly lengthy and detailed.
I just think its silly that when there is a thread on jags or morphs or albinos it ends up five pages long with heaps of comments but some people will ignore a thread with someone asking for help. These same people will sit on here and yap on about contributing to the hobby while they don't contribute any info to the younger generation of hobbyists because "they can just search it themselves"
If that is your attitude it is plain unfair that the first 100 people that asked a silly question got an answer and the rest can "search and decode" as I like to call it
Anyway thats just life and it takes all different types to make the world go round and luckily there will always be a few good people to answer the so called silly questions.
I rarely read introduction threads. It's not the best place to ask questions. I don't think I've seen too many silly questions since I've been on APS. Though I sometimes wonder why it is so hard for some people when it was so simple for me as a noob. I bought and read the recommended keeping books. I read everything I could find on the Internet. Sometimes I feel people want to just know the absolute minimum to get by, rather than immersing themselves in the sea of available information before they even get a reptile. I ask a few questions. I'm not saying no one should ever ask a question. But I tend to respond to questions that aren't easily obtained with a little self help.
Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
A "silly" question asked in a non silly well thought of manner will recieve answers... it's all in the delivery.
When should I feed my....? (silly delivery) with a silly answer (when it's hungry) or people will just ignore it - though a genuine question from somebody new to the hobby with real concerns about the specimen they keep.
Rephrase to:
Is there a correct or prefered feeding regime/schedule for my....? - not so silly and sounds well thought of, will most likely get answers, may even generate genuine debate amongst keepers...
Both essentially asking the same thing but which one do you guys think people will respond more to?
When should I feed my....? (silly delivery) with a silly answer (when it's hungry) or people will just ignore it - though a genuine question from somebody new to the hobby with real concerns about the specimen they keep.
Rephrase to:
Is there a correct or prefered feeding regime/schedule for my....? - not so silly and sounds well thought of, will most likely get answers, may even generate genuine debate amongst keepers...
Both essentially asking the same thing but which one do you guys think people will respond more to?
Last edited:
That's exactly what I was trying to say
you put it in a more direct, well thought out way. Thank you 
moosenoose
Legendary
One of my favourite snakes is perhaps my most boring, ....and it's just your standard Darwin. Why play with perfection I say
Newhere
Well-Known Member
Yeah I know it wasn't the best place to ask a question but I was new lol and after not recieving many replies I decided not to bother putting a thread in the help section.
I am doing hours of reasearch and I have been for months so far but I had a specific question about my enclosures electrical setup and I was after a second opinion thats pretty much all.
I know the silly questions you are talking about as I have seen lots of threads that look like they were created by children or maybe mentally challenged individuals. My point is, why don't these people deserve help? Keeping pets has many benifits for both children and mentally challenged people and keeping reptiles is actually better than your average pet because you have to learn a lot of stuff to keep the animal healthy and provide a suitable habitat so that is mental stimulation.
The types of people that ask these questions are the types of people that might not be able to read a care sheet or book and put that into practice at they may have learning problems or be too young to understand and apply the information. What is the harm in spoonfeeding them some info to make sure they have a rewarding experience with their pet and the animals requirements are being met?
I'm sure if a mentally challenged person or a child walked up to you in real life and asked you a stupid question you would help them instead of thinking "go do ya research ya little rookie" lol well I hope most of you would help them and I think thats what everyone should do on here and in real life. Help out the less fortunate and help the hobby grow and everyone have the opportunity to keep a reptile.
Also I'm not a fan of crossing animals as I think they are all beautiful just as they are and just how they have evolved to be. When you look at a pure python you are looking at mother natures creation from millions of years of evolution. Even if all the carpets are the same animal they have evolved beautiful patterns for all of their individual ecosystems and I don't understand why you would want to mix n match them instead of appreciating each individual as a specimen of their environment and how the animal has adapted to live where it does. I'm not against it as people can do what they want but I prefer the pure animals as that is the true beauty of mother nature.
I am doing hours of reasearch and I have been for months so far but I had a specific question about my enclosures electrical setup and I was after a second opinion thats pretty much all.
I know the silly questions you are talking about as I have seen lots of threads that look like they were created by children or maybe mentally challenged individuals. My point is, why don't these people deserve help? Keeping pets has many benifits for both children and mentally challenged people and keeping reptiles is actually better than your average pet because you have to learn a lot of stuff to keep the animal healthy and provide a suitable habitat so that is mental stimulation.
The types of people that ask these questions are the types of people that might not be able to read a care sheet or book and put that into practice at they may have learning problems or be too young to understand and apply the information. What is the harm in spoonfeeding them some info to make sure they have a rewarding experience with their pet and the animals requirements are being met?
I'm sure if a mentally challenged person or a child walked up to you in real life and asked you a stupid question you would help them instead of thinking "go do ya research ya little rookie" lol well I hope most of you would help them and I think thats what everyone should do on here and in real life. Help out the less fortunate and help the hobby grow and everyone have the opportunity to keep a reptile.
Also I'm not a fan of crossing animals as I think they are all beautiful just as they are and just how they have evolved to be. When you look at a pure python you are looking at mother natures creation from millions of years of evolution. Even if all the carpets are the same animal they have evolved beautiful patterns for all of their individual ecosystems and I don't understand why you would want to mix n match them instead of appreciating each individual as a specimen of their environment and how the animal has adapted to live where it does. I'm not against it as people can do what they want but I prefer the pure animals as that is the true beauty of mother nature.
Last edited:
S
Snowman
Guest
How is any of that my problem as a forum member? If they can't read a care sheet or understand a book then my answers are not going to be any more clear. As the books are made specifically for informing individuals of husbandry and keeping practices. Often if they are intellectually impaired they should have a parent or guardian overseeing their pets needs.
I answer a lot of questions on this forum since 2009. But there are a lot of questions or threads I ignore. It's part of being a forum member to pick and choose the topics that you would like to get involved in. If you post a question and it goes un answered then try another approach. Perhaps find someone in your area that keeps reptiles and use them as a mentor. Join the local reptile society and ask anyone at a meeting and they will be happy to help. Make friends on the forums of people in your state and send PM's to them asking specific questions.
It's not rocket science. And I hate the mentality that its everyone else's problem (the forum members) if a question is not answered to the satisfaction of the original poster.
Helping people is great. I have helped a lot of strangers off forums in the past. Everything from donating click clacks and heat cords to wiring up a viv free of charge. But you can't expect people to jump when you tell them too!
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
I guess the first part of your statement comes down to comprehension and if a person is not able to comprehend what is written in a book or on the internet then how is relaying the same information on a thread going to help. I think the forum is made up of a lot of different types of people , some that enjoy helping the needy and some that don't, some people can search basic information and use their knowledge and common sense to piece together the rest and others can't so like you said it isn't the members fault if information isn't supplied to the degree or as timely as the poster wanted. What we can do as forum members though is control how we treat others on this site and that is where a lot of people don't do their 50%. I would rather no answers than a condescending or rude remark made as would many others , I am sure this site has lost a lot of members and I was nearly one by the remarks made by some people. I am now used to how some speak to others and don't let it bother me but as a first welcome to the forum world it can be a bit off putting even though the moderators do a great job trying to control this they can't be everywhere at once. I also think that people go through stages where they post a lot and then don't post much at all depending on what is going on in their lives and this can effect the amount of answers that a question may get.
I would prefer to see repeated or just noob questions, (whether they are phrased intelligently or not as someone above suggested) rather than hear about reptiles being seized from owners who don't heat them, or don't provide them with enough food, or allow them to get impactions or don't notice they're egg-bound or gravid etc. A question, no matter what it is, is a sign of someone seeking information, which in my mind is always going to be better than not seeking it at all.
Whether you have the tolerance to answer it is a different question. I would suggest that if those questions irritate you, whatever 2c you feel like giving is probably not going to be constructive and therefore a waste of both parties' time. When people do not receive an answer to their question, I believe that is answer enough to let them know their approach was perhaps a little lacking.
Personally, I think a booklet being provided upon buying your first reptile (or a new species) is a brilliant idea. Time and effort is obviously a factor. I might consider doing something like this with hatchies I move on in the future.
Whether you have the tolerance to answer it is a different question. I would suggest that if those questions irritate you, whatever 2c you feel like giving is probably not going to be constructive and therefore a waste of both parties' time. When people do not receive an answer to their question, I believe that is answer enough to let them know their approach was perhaps a little lacking.
Personally, I think a booklet being provided upon buying your first reptile (or a new species) is a brilliant idea. Time and effort is obviously a factor. I might consider doing something like this with hatchies I move on in the future.
S
Snowman
Guest
I've written a care sheet and started to work in it a bit more a few times with the idea of making a blog for people that get new hatchies that I sell. But its a much bigger undertaking than I had originally thought. They hard part is keeping it simple and not plagurising other guides out there. Making it easy to understand and so the reader understands the basics is the end goal. I think the main thing with noobs is getting heating right. Understanding how and where to read the heat in the basking spot. How to use different heating methods. And how to make sure the hatchy isn't stressed. What keeps detering me is that there is nothing that hasn't already been covered in the bibles. IE keeping and breeding Australian pythons, the complete carpet python, the complete antaresia and pythons of the world volume one.
T
Trimeresurus
Guest
One big thing I agree with snow on is what he said about not having a hard time finding the same information when I was starting out. If people can't be bothered to put in the time and patience to find some easily available information, why should they deserve a pet that requires them both of those things?
B
Bluetongue1
Guest
This is a complex issue for a whole range of reasons. It is pleasing to see the last few posts teasing out releveant detail from the morass. The attitudes of individual's vary and their reason and the way the view the forum and its uses are even more variable.
The brother-in-law has a great T-shirt that says "I can explain for it to you... But I cannot understand it for you". There is a percentage of individuals who want others to do all the work for them. Where you have cause I believe you are entitled to address these issues. I know that I told individuals that I believe are just out to waste people's time or obviously going about the questioning in a totally slap-dash manner, This is what I believe they are doing and why I think that. As a result I have been criticised by some longer term forum users for being unduly harsh.
Nor do I expect highly experienced users to answer basic questions. Their expertise and time is often better directed at more challenging and complex issues. Most have done their time in primary school and shouldn't be criticised for working at a tertiary level now.
One point I have tried to make is that if individuals are not told told ahead of time, how the hell are they supposed to know that reptiles have specific requirements that differentiate them from the feathers, fur or fins brigade. For example, far and away the most common scaly pets are goldfish and carp - neither of which need heating. And I agree with Snowman that heating is the major issue (though not the only one) new keepers need to get properly sorted if they are to successful.
Like the brother-in-law's t-shirt, I do not advocate that forum users do all the work for new keepers. I don't have an issue with answeing specific questions. But faced with a plethora of individual requests or an all-embracing "how do you look after 'X'?", they need to be directed to where they can find satisfactory answers but through own efforts.
I definitely agree that how a question is phrased affects how we respond. How would you heat a hatchling 'X'? versus I have heard that heat mats are dangerous so how do I heat my hatchling 'X'? The forum does tend to be more accepting of those who do demonstrate that they are making the effort to learn off their own bat. Unfortunately we also tend to make the assumption that those that do not demonstrate this are not prepared to make the individual effort required. This is partially the point at which I entered the conversation with my initial post.
You don't have to do the research for people. All you need to do is to direct them to appropriate specific resources that will allow them to find the information they need, confident in the knowledge that what they are finding out is worthwhile and not rubbish.
If the 'sticky threads' worked the way they were intended then a lot of this discussion would be redundant. The information pages have potential but have a long way to go yet.
And yes. There are some people who should be allowed to take on the responsibility of any pet, let alone a reptile. To a certain degree I feel we are victims of our own success. Many no longer view snakes as evil and nasty and they have they even become fashionable and trendy.
A final thought, a little something to consider... If you don't wish to help the keeper perhaps you may still wish to help that which is being kept.
Blue
The brother-in-law has a great T-shirt that says "I can explain for it to you... But I cannot understand it for you". There is a percentage of individuals who want others to do all the work for them. Where you have cause I believe you are entitled to address these issues. I know that I told individuals that I believe are just out to waste people's time or obviously going about the questioning in a totally slap-dash manner, This is what I believe they are doing and why I think that. As a result I have been criticised by some longer term forum users for being unduly harsh.
Nor do I expect highly experienced users to answer basic questions. Their expertise and time is often better directed at more challenging and complex issues. Most have done their time in primary school and shouldn't be criticised for working at a tertiary level now.
One point I have tried to make is that if individuals are not told told ahead of time, how the hell are they supposed to know that reptiles have specific requirements that differentiate them from the feathers, fur or fins brigade. For example, far and away the most common scaly pets are goldfish and carp - neither of which need heating. And I agree with Snowman that heating is the major issue (though not the only one) new keepers need to get properly sorted if they are to successful.
Like the brother-in-law's t-shirt, I do not advocate that forum users do all the work for new keepers. I don't have an issue with answeing specific questions. But faced with a plethora of individual requests or an all-embracing "how do you look after 'X'?", they need to be directed to where they can find satisfactory answers but through own efforts.
I definitely agree that how a question is phrased affects how we respond. How would you heat a hatchling 'X'? versus I have heard that heat mats are dangerous so how do I heat my hatchling 'X'? The forum does tend to be more accepting of those who do demonstrate that they are making the effort to learn off their own bat. Unfortunately we also tend to make the assumption that those that do not demonstrate this are not prepared to make the individual effort required. This is partially the point at which I entered the conversation with my initial post.
You don't have to do the research for people. All you need to do is to direct them to appropriate specific resources that will allow them to find the information they need, confident in the knowledge that what they are finding out is worthwhile and not rubbish.
If the 'sticky threads' worked the way they were intended then a lot of this discussion would be redundant. The information pages have potential but have a long way to go yet.
And yes. There are some people who should be allowed to take on the responsibility of any pet, let alone a reptile. To a certain degree I feel we are victims of our own success. Many no longer view snakes as evil and nasty and they have they even become fashionable and trendy.
A final thought, a little something to consider... If you don't wish to help the keeper perhaps you may still wish to help that which is being kept.
Blue
- Status
