bredli ruined now aswell
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Den from Den Pythons
Very Well-Known Member
Ummm, you are making your own point mate. How dare someone assume you were talking in reference to the title thread and animal in photo supplied as an example...
I guess you have your mind set on a hybrid debate, that thread was closed a while ago bud... This is a Jag topic, hence the Jag photo...
its a jag coastal x bredli from what i read look in www.precisionreptiles.com
ihaveherps
Well-Known Member
Get over it peoples..... Jags are a poor mans morph..... no cutting edge, not difficult to produce.... co-dom morphs are mass produced easier than any others. Mark my words, the price of jags wont just drop, they drive themselves into the ground, one jag male can produce hundreds of jags a year. When jags are a dime a dozen (which they will be) all the jokers who thought that hybridising them was where it was at, will realise the fad had a life-span shorter than ostrich farming. The smuggling, the shaddow games, will all have a pay day, short as it may be... the hoardes that jump on the bandwagon.... suckers is a term that comes to mind. Jags will be run of the mill before they surface, if you dont already have an adult jag, you will have missed the boat. The mutt makers will call jags the grail, spose they will be.... a morph sub-specifically questionable right back to day dot.
Now I know that there will be all those "jags are pure coastals......" . Whatever! How long have we been waiting for Jan Erics tell all article? So its just an article.... tell you what, go to his web site and cut and paste some information for me.... in my opinion, you dont disappear if you dont have anything to hide....
Sure you can buy a pretty, arguably hybrid, obvious progeny of smuggling, if you have the money..... though the thing about integrity is if you really have some, its priceless.
Now I know that there will be all those "jags are pure coastals......" . Whatever! How long have we been waiting for Jan Erics tell all article? So its just an article.... tell you what, go to his web site and cut and paste some information for me.... in my opinion, you dont disappear if you dont have anything to hide....
Sure you can buy a pretty, arguably hybrid, obvious progeny of smuggling, if you have the money..... though the thing about integrity is if you really have some, its priceless.
aspidito
Well-Known Member
Waruikazi, Den,
Well said, some people just just dont get it but offer them a high yellow jungle / Jag & I know they will want it:
:
Well said, some people just just dont get it but offer them a high yellow jungle / Jag & I know they will want it:
:
stuartandconnie
Well-Known Member
magic
stunning animals
stunning animals
megrim
Active Member
just to comment on a few of the things said in this thread:
Bredls jags are virtually never red, I have seen many in person and there was not a red scale on any of them. The pics posted at teh start of this thread are either an anomaly or they were photoshopped, I know the site they came from and they have a history of suspicious pics that appear to be color enhanced.
On the issue of jag prices plummeting, its true and has already happened, you can curerently get them for as litttle as a few hundred dollars, people are startng to sell them to wholesalers and this year they will be even less.
The jag crossing fad here is dying quickly, but the damge is done now.
The state of our captive gene pool over here was already bad but now its a catastrophe, there are three and four way crosses being dumped into the pet trade with no background, and no accountability. In just a couple of years they managed to crosses those dam jags to every subspeicies that we have available and even GTPs.
In addtion I never see anyone on this forum talk about the nuerological problems that jags have. The fact is that along with this mutation many jags develope these problems and in some cases it can be severe, animals have tremors and what almost seem like seizures, particularily when they are exited or stressed.
Australian keepers should really think hard before they rush to imitate whats gone on in the USA and Europe.
I see the pro-hybrid peopl on this forum making the same tired excuses for the practice I see poeple make over here. If you want to see what uncontrolled crossing will do to your hobby, just look over here. After nearly 20 years of people doing it over here its now very difficult to even find pure carpet subspecies. There are thousands of carpets prodcued here every year and there is almost no backggroiund information on most of them.
There are still pure lines around but you have to do a good deal of research to find them and pretty much have to assume that the large majority of unknows are tainted.
Is this really the way you want your hobby to go in Australia? and for what, some flashy jag crosses that nobody is going to give a crap about in a few years anyway?
Nick
Bredls jags are virtually never red, I have seen many in person and there was not a red scale on any of them. The pics posted at teh start of this thread are either an anomaly or they were photoshopped, I know the site they came from and they have a history of suspicious pics that appear to be color enhanced.
On the issue of jag prices plummeting, its true and has already happened, you can curerently get them for as litttle as a few hundred dollars, people are startng to sell them to wholesalers and this year they will be even less.
The jag crossing fad here is dying quickly, but the damge is done now.
The state of our captive gene pool over here was already bad but now its a catastrophe, there are three and four way crosses being dumped into the pet trade with no background, and no accountability. In just a couple of years they managed to crosses those dam jags to every subspeicies that we have available and even GTPs.
In addtion I never see anyone on this forum talk about the nuerological problems that jags have. The fact is that along with this mutation many jags develope these problems and in some cases it can be severe, animals have tremors and what almost seem like seizures, particularily when they are exited or stressed.
Australian keepers should really think hard before they rush to imitate whats gone on in the USA and Europe.
I see the pro-hybrid peopl on this forum making the same tired excuses for the practice I see poeple make over here. If you want to see what uncontrolled crossing will do to your hobby, just look over here. After nearly 20 years of people doing it over here its now very difficult to even find pure carpet subspecies. There are thousands of carpets prodcued here every year and there is almost no backggroiund information on most of them.
There are still pure lines around but you have to do a good deal of research to find them and pretty much have to assume that the large majority of unknows are tainted.
Is this really the way you want your hobby to go in Australia? and for what, some flashy jag crosses that nobody is going to give a crap about in a few years anyway?
Nick
Jungle_Freak
Very Well-Known Member
Excellant posts ihaveherps and Nickm
heres a video showing the neuro problems that jags can get
[video=youtube;VzD8hohKXps]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzD8hohKXps[/video]
heres a video showing the neuro problems that jags can get
[video=youtube;VzD8hohKXps]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzD8hohKXps[/video]
Moreliaman
Very Well-Known Member
Both the morphs & the standard bredli look stunning in their own way, personaly i couldnt give a toss what people think, id be happy to own any of them.
diamondgeeza
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The hypo bredli jag is not too shabby
Moreliaman
Very Well-Known Member
OMG, have you seen the amount of pedigree cats & dogs around ? crossed & line bred over generations.... developing defects that are passed on to future offspring.....like alsation's with hip problems....sharpei's that have skin conditions.....the list is endless......and now they are doing it to morelia....:shock:
Im amazed about the people that are slating this persons choice of snakes (i presume they belong to someone who likes them), but are quite happy to accept compliments given to their own personal preference...god forbid anyone who slates their personal choice of collection eh !!
The level of hypocrisy in this thread is amazing !!
Im amazed about the people that are slating this persons choice of snakes (i presume they belong to someone who likes them), but are quite happy to accept compliments given to their own personal preference...god forbid anyone who slates their personal choice of collection eh !!
The level of hypocrisy in this thread is amazing !!
Squish
Not so new Member
I'm sure I made this comment about line-breeding once and people shot me down. It's nice to know I'm not the only one looking at the horrible state of our domestic dog breeds and wondering why we're gonna do that to snakes too.
On the other hand, breeding quality snakes with jags could be a way of increasing the gene pool of jags and help counter the side effects that come with it, or at least a way of trying. Not that I support it, I just see why others do it.
But all these bredli hybrids make me sad. I love the colour of bredis, but all the hybrids I've seen of them lose the colour. Like diamond x bredli, from what I've seen, has the diamond colours and the bredli patterns. If you could come up with a hybrid that was bredli colours but diamond patterns, I might be tempted, but basically they're breeding the colour out of bredlis.
gravell_rash
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Wow thats heaps pretty!
moreliainsanity
Active Member
Great Post NickM and Ihaveherps, I tend to sit on the fence when debates like this pops out, just read and absorb what people from both sides got to say, fortunately we live in a free country
I agree that this JAG thing will be short term fad just look at what's happening with them overseas and take consideration the population over there compare to australia(we are tiny) people who's got them now here in oz are the only ones who will make a buck initially and that's where it will end.Legality issue and moral issue will be a concern for some who would want to get their hands on JAGS here in australia, and not to forget the neuro problems that comes with some JAGS. I remember a couple of years ago reading on one overseas breeder that invested money for a JAG breeding program, he bred them and end up euthanising the clutch for showing major neuro issue and got out of jags all together, Now no wonder someone out there is marketing them as "HYBRIDS":lol::lol: Sorry but I find that's real funny.
If there's a real big demand for them why not sell them or promote them as JAGS????
Leigh
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