bredli ruined now aswell

[Squish]

I think you are colour blind the 2nd one is simpley amazing.

*looks again* No... No, I'm quite sure it's hideous...

 

[draqonfly]

i guess thats why they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

Are we talking Hybrids or designer morphs now?
And are we starting from the beginning bredings (as I suggested) or with an already established Jaguar?

BTW Jags have nada to do with my comments, I think you have missed my point completely.




I dont give a crap about Jags (as I already stated)
I am discussing hybrids of 2 pure species ok (as I stated)
Put a coastal over a Jungle and tell me if you get a clutch of 100% lookers.

Take Jags out of the equation for a minute as I have clearly (several times now) made it apparent (obviously not clearly enough) that I am trying to discuss HYBRIDS IN AUS.
Is my comments any clearer yet? I am discussing HYBRIDS NOT DESIGNER MORPHS, NOT JAGUARS AND NOT GOLDFISH.

But if defending Australian hybrids with overseas Jag morphs is your go then so be it.
Not once have I said Jags are ugly ok, I have said Hybrids are and I stand by that comment.
So as I am clearly not even arguing anything remotely close to Jags, why do I have to research them?

Jags have nothing to do with your comments??

I didn't realize I had to be a Jag breeder to have an opinion on hybrids in general.
So I take it you have been breeding Jags for years and years yourself then since you seem to have an opinion on the matter also?
Anyway you havn't argued my point at all. It is still fact that out of several clutches there is only 1-2 1/2 decent looking animals produced.

You are discussing hybrids of 2 pure species?? The Bredli in question (the pic posted) is a jag, hence the jag relevance....

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

And are we starting from the beginning bredings (as I suggested) or with an already established Jaguar?

My 'cut out' was the details of the second season of the original first Jag breeding??

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

I dont give a crap about Jags (as I already stated)
I am discussing hybrids of 2 pure species ok (as I stated)

The pics are of a JAG (bredli influence). You don't care about them, that's ok. Maybe a "hybrids of two pure species" thread would suit your comments better? I'm sure there is one on this site some where...

 

[amazonian]

Yes the pic posted is a Bredli Jag.
But where in any of my posts have I mentioned Jags or designer morphs?
All I said was that hybrids (the crossing of different species or subspecies) produces ugly offspring.
And several times now I have used Coastals X Jungles as an example to clarify my intention, but still you point out jags to me?????? Get over the whole Jag thing. I am not talking about Jags here, I am talking about HYBRIDS IN AUS. Rather than start a new thread with 6575645 pages of slinging mud I thought I would express my opinion here even if the criteria does not fit with the pic posted *yawn*. It was still on topic and relevant to the topic.

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

Haha, christ. Obviously we could go back and forth here....
Your point is my point mate. You are talking about crossing two pure species, chatting in relation to the animals posted...?

Relevant to the topic? The topic is a Jag, not pure species crossing... Your post has no relevance here. I understand you are passionate but the horse is dead mate, no need to keep flogging it.

 

[waruikazi]

Yes the pic posted is a Bredli Jag.
But where in any of my posts have I mentioned Jags or designer morphs?
All I said was that hybrids (the crossing of different species or subspecies) produces ugly offspring.
And several times now I have used Coastals X Jungles as an example to clarify my intention, but still you point out jags to me?????? Get over the whole Jag thing. I am not talking about Jags here, I am talking about HYBRIDS IN AUS. Rather than start a new thread with 6575645 pages of slinging mud I thought I would express my opinion here even if the criteria does not fit with the pic posted *yawn*. It was still on topic and relevant to the topic.

It doesn't matter that you haven't mentioned them, Jags are what this thread is about. Don't go changing your argument just because people are rebutting you.

Like i called you out before, show us the pictures of entire clutches of ugly hybrids right up to adult colours.

The arguments against hybrids are really weak, if you don't like them then don't buy them or produce them. But don't slag people off for owning them and producing them.

 

[Squish]

I think I agree with Den, though I haven't bothered to read your whole argument... (why would I?)

Yes, a lot of hybrids will be dull, but the intention here is to take a well established and popular genetic trait and breed it into bredlis... much the same as people do with poodles/labradoodles/cockapoos/goldendoodles, and any other animals we domesticate. It's a well-established practise in other animals, why not do it with snakes? And it's more likely to come out with better looking snakes if you use the jag morph to create the hybrid than if you throw two common snakes together n see what the hybrid looks like.

I think I'm just a bit of a bredli purist.

 

[girdheinz]

im not burying my head in the sand. yes they are here. but they shouldnt be here in at least NSW, it states on your licence condition that its illegal to cross breed sub species together. hence why they shouldnt be here. sorry but NPWS should watch all clasifieds and seize all hybrids that come up for sale. yes this may push these hybrids under-ground, but it will make the sale of these hybrids harder as they wont be readily available.

From NSW reptile holdings 2005

X2009
Antaresia childreni X A stimsoni
Children's / Stimson's Python hybrid

2​

0​

2​

0​

0​

2​

X2002
Antaresia childreni X A. maculosus
Children's/Eastern Small-blotched Python hybrid

14​

13​

9​

0​

5​

17​

Also these

X2005
Morelia spilota spilota X M.s. bredli
Diamond / Centralian Carpet Python hybrid

4​

2​

5​

0​

1​

6​

X2010
Morelia spilota spilota X M.s. cheynei
Diamond / Jungle Python hybrid

1​

0​

1​

0​

0​

1​

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-herps/nsw-reptile-holdings-2005-a-43796

Gird

 

[waruikazi]

I think I agree with Den, though I haven't bothered to read your whole argument... (why would I?)

Yes, a lot of hybrids will be dull, but the intention here is to take a well established and popular genetic trait and breed it into bredlis... much the same as people do with poodles/labradoodles/cockapoos/goldendoodles, and any other animals we domesticate. It's a well-established practise in other animals, why not do it with snakes? And it's more likely to come out with better looking snakes if you use the jag morph to create the hybrid than if you throw two common snakes together n see what the hybrid looks like.

I think I'm just a bit of a bredli purist.

But people don't seem to get that alot of locality snakes are incredibly dull, i would even call ugly, with out being cross bred. You get fuglies in just about any species and they can pop up at any time.

 

[Gabi_79]

This is why i only keep olives now lol.

I'm not a hybrid fan by any means but these kinds of snakes a brightly colored and nice to look at, which these days is what people want.
Most people don't really care about the natural history or life cycles of our reptiles, which is fine really because it puts less pressure on our wild stocks through illegal collecting, amoung other things.

These snakes are just like birds a pretty looking thing in a cage, theres nothing wrong with that as long as they are well cared for.

Personally i would never own one or breed one but many people will so theres no point in fighting, why not just respect what others are doing, if you don't like just ignore it.
Hybrids aren't going to affect our wild snakes anymore so than non local species escaping so theres no real harm being done anymore we are past that point, any damage to our hobby that could be done has been.

 

[Squish]

But people don't seem to get that alot of locality snakes are incredibly dull, i would even call ugly, with out being cross bred. You get fuglies in just about any species and they can pop up at any time.

True. Hence the popularity of womas, diamonds, jungles, bredlis... the ones with the flashier norm.

Also why I say hybrid jags are different.

 

[amazonian]

It doesn't matter that you haven't mentioned them, Jags are what this thread is about. Don't go changing your argument just because people are rebutting you.

Like i called you out before, show us the pictures of entire clutches of ugly hybrids right up to adult colours.

The arguments against hybrids are really weak, if you don't like them then don't buy them or produce them. But don't slag people off for owning them and producing them.

Are you serious?
I am not changing any argument, my comments have always been about Hybrids in Aus.
I thought this was clear seen as I mentioned 2 species as an example and even went to the trouble odf stating the amount of animals advertised for sale in Aus as well as posted on APS by unknowingly gullible buyers that assumed they had pures. It's not my fault you foolishly chose to look at a photo posted by another member on page 1 while reading my posts. If you can't differentiate between my words and anothers members photos then more fool you I am afraid. As for calling me out I am pretty sure that I was the 1 that suggested that you show pics of entire good looking clutches if you can & I will produce pics of true ugly hybrid mutt clutches. The offer still stands if you like. Lets see your so called good looking hybrids (not designers, not Jags & not goldfish but true hybrid crosses)

Anyway I am flogging a dead horse here so I am out.

 

[waruikazi]

True. Hence the popularity of womas, diamonds, jungles, bredlis... the ones with the flashier norm.

Also why I say hybrid jags are different.

But you still have to realize that within each of those species there are fuglies. There are some genuinely ugly womas, hideous bredli, jungles and BHPs. I'm yet to see an ugly diamond... but i'm sure it will happen lol.

 

[waruikazi]

Are you serious?
I am not changing any argument, my comments have always been about Hybrids in Aus.
I thought this was clear seen as I mentioned 2 species as an example and even went to the trouble odf stating the amount of animals advertised for sale in Aus as well as posted on APS by unknowingly gullible buyers that assumed they had pures. It's not my fault you foolishly chose to look at a photo posted by another member on page 1 while reading my posts. If you can't differentiate between my words and anothers members photos then more fool you I am afraid. As for calling me out I am pretty sure that I was the 1 that suggested that you show pics of entire good looking clutches if you can & I will produce pics of true ugly hybrid mutt clutches. The offer still stands if you like. Lets see your so called good looking hybrids (not designers, not Jags & not goldfish but true hybrid crosses)

Anyway I am flogging a dead horse here so I am out.

You're the one making the claim, you have to back it up. Trust me i am not the one looking the fool.

 

[Squish]

But you still have to realize that within each of those species there are fuglies. There are some genuinely ugly womas, hideous bredli, jungles and BHPs. I'm yet to see an ugly diamond... but i'm sure it will happen lol.

I agree completely.

 

[waruikazi]

Different or unique... Say what u may... Those are animals I would love to have in my collection..... Take my word, the whole purist thing will always have the upper hand when it comes to pure bred animals but designer will always b a step above... The reason, we humans love to b different and would never like being compared to the next.....If what u have is what u have, then I want ALWAYS some thing better... If u get a JAG I want a Ferrari...

Ever notice with these mongrel mutants that there is only ever a pic of 1 animal from a clutch (and no mention of how many clutches were produced)???
Thats because the rest of the mutts are pig dog ugly (and should be euthanised) THATS A FACT. What will happen to these ugly offspring? No1 is going to want to buy them & breeders will not want to cull them and lose possible $$$ so will they be advertised as weird looking or ugly pures or what? I know a new line of such and such bred by the infamous so & so lmfao.

If you cross bred 10 clutches you might have enough offspring that are not tooo fugly to start a breeding trio (if your lucky) lmao.

This is actually what you responded to and prompted me to respond to you. Hmmmm, i know what it looks like to me perhaps talking about jags... Anyway i don't really care, ur not gonna open you're mind and like you said ur a dead horse.

 

[waruikazi]

I'm out, this is sinking into personal levels. Grow up you lot :lol:

 

[R3PT1LE]

I love the look of some intergrades, But it's not what nature intended...