bredli ruined now aswell

[megrim]

I would take a classic Bredli over them anyday )

I agree. I'll admit that I find the prettier hybrids amazing to look at, but in terms of personal taste, the animals pictured in the O.P. don't really 'do it' for me. I think it's difficult for Australian reptiles (which are, with the notable exceptions perhaps of GTP's and common tree snakes, rather bland in colouring) to compete with these designer hybrid things. Especially in terms of people not interested in pure locality stuff. If I were looking for a 'display' animal, a simple pet, I'm pretty sure I'd go with a designer mongrel over a pure but plain Childreni.
Especially if I didn't have access to these sorts of sites and debates. Until I joined this site I didn't even realise the hybrid 'issue' was such a hot topic, and I dare say the vast majority of young herpers don't know of it either.

 

[waruikazi]

so if their the so called F1, the begining of the line. they cant be a morph, the are a hybrid. the reason it strikes so deeply in us aussie herpers is the we all all concerned about the health of our native snakes not the quick buck that can be made from these hybrids. just think about whom we want these so called stunning hybrids in 5 year when something better has been produced. what will these hybrids be worth after a new hybrid has been produced? the old hybrid will drop in price as the new hybrid is produced till their worth nothing as no one will want them as they will be the ones that will then be classed as but ugly

Again that's emotion talking 'i'm just concerned for the welfare of the animals.'

What's going to happen in 5 years time to your bhp pair when bhp fall out of desire? What is going to happen to your coastal in 5 years time when we can all afford chondros? Who's gonna care for them then? If they fall out of desire that badly people will stop producing them, similar to what we have seen with water pythons about 5-7 years ago. If you're that concerned about our native snakes in the pet trade why not turn your attention to the people pumping out thousands of coastals and childrens each season and flogging them off to people who don't understand how to look after them.

They are a morph because they are jags, they are also a hybrid because there is a minimum of two species in the mix there.

 

[Australis]

Having a quick squizz on international sites, i see the "sibs" to jags clutches, are regularly advertised
and sold... and to be honest... damn fugly!.. and have nothing on a nice normal coastal carpet IMO.

Although, my opinion/taste is naturally worthless.. like the rest of you ignorant naive Aussies who
don't understand you MUST follow, admire and mirror everything you see o/s... none of us are
smart enough to think for ourselves, were like a zillion years behind the developed world you know
So buy some kneepads and get to work!

 

[waruikazi]

here we go again... I always stay out of these debates but I don't find these particular ones attractive. I would take a classic Bredli over them anyday (purely because I think they still look better than these 'designer' snakes )

I'm beginning to remember why i stay out of these threads too. Far too much emotion.

 

[caustichumor]

So buy some kneepads and get to work!

Kneepads are so temporary, calouses show commitment

 

[ecosnake]

Not illegal in Victoria in the slightest.

Explicitly illegal in QLD, not sure about anywhere else, someone else has suggested it's stated as illegal in NSW, but I've not read their legislature yet.

Ok I stand corrected, I live in Qld one rule for one state one rule for another...lol

 

[waruikazi]

I remember when the pied childrens popped up in a US collection. We had this same debate on this very forum about how the yanks had ruined another aussie species .

And you guys do know there is something you can do about these hybrids and crosses flooding the market right? You support the practice that you think is the best. Don't buy from people who you think are producing crosses and only buy locality animals. If enough people feel the same as you do you will end up pushing them out of the market.

 

[funcouple]

Again that's emotion talking 'i'm just concerned for the welfare of the animals.'

What's going to happen in 5 years time to your bhp pair when bhp fall out of desire? What is going to happen to your coastal in 5 years time when we can all afford chondros? Who's gonna care for them then? If they fall out of desire that badly people will stop producing them, similar to what we have seen with water pythons about 5-7 years ago. If you're that concerned about our native snakes in the pet trade why not turn your attention to the people pumping out thousands of coastals and childrens each season and flogging them off to people who don't understand how to look after them.

They are a morph because they are jags, they are also a hybrid because there is a minimum of two species in the mix there.

they arent a morph because their jags. a jag is just the name given to a hybrid to make it more exeptable. think about it, a bredli jag sounds better than a bredli hybrid.
yes you are partly right in what will be the in snakes in 5 years. but if these hybrids are here our natives wont be.
as for snakes being flogged to people not knowing or understanding how to look after them i have emailed NSW NPWS and asked that they concider adding that people must do a keeping course before a licence is issued. yes i did a keeping a python course before getting my first snake, and i did learn from it.

 

[WombleHerp]

i like them


Nat x

 

[Renagade]

I hardly think they are ruined

As true bloodline are avalable overseas, why do you we think that ours are immediatly threatened here? Also hybrids are already available here, If you dont already second guess the bloodlines of your snakes the you purchace, than you are being far to trustworthy. last week on herptrader there was an inland x jungle for a rediculous price. but was a good pet, never bitten. what if someone wanted 'just a snake' and like the ideas of having it. would be a shame to hack at them in regards to their new pride and joy. these pics are all from over seas, but the amount that it already here makes me feel like many of you are burying your head in the sand. get used to the idea.
ren

 

[waruikazi]

they arent a morph because their jags. a jag is just the name given to a hybrid to make it more exeptable. think about it, a bredli jag sounds better than a bredli hybrid.
yes you are partly right in what will be the in snakes in 5 years. but if these hybrids are here our natives wont be.
as for snakes being flogged to people not knowing or understanding how to look after them i have emailed NSW NPWS and asked that they concider adding that people must do a keeping course before a licence is issued. yes i did a keeping a python course before getting my first snake, and i did learn from it.

You do know that a jag is a co-dom genetic morph right? With these being jags that makes them a morph.

 

[WombleHerp]

I hardly think they are ruined

As true bloodline are avalable overseas, why do you we think that ours are immediatly threatened here? Also hybrids are already available here, If you dont already second guess the bloodlines of your snakes the you purchace, than you are being far to trustworthy. last week on herptrader there was an inland x jungle for a rediculous price. but was a good pet, never bitten. what if someone wanted 'just a snake' and like the ideas of having it. would be a shame to hack at them in regards to their new pride and joy. these pics are all from over seas, but the amount that it already here makes me feel like many of you are burying your head in the sand. get used to the idea.
ren

i like that piccy! very very pretty indeed.

guys, i mean, come on... they are all still snakes are they not?? isnt that the reason we all got into the hobby in the first place? because we liked snakes and other herps in some way?

i am a fan of hybrids

Nat x

 

[aspidito]

..... ......

For goodness sake have a look at some international forums & you will see full clutches of designer jag morphs, all very desireable animals & anyone who states they are ugly is fooling themselves, not me!
These animals are leading the way in the USA, UK & Europe & the same will happen here.

 

[megrim]

Ok I stand corrected, I live in Qld one rule for one state one rule for another...lol

Don't get me wrong, I'd quite like to see the practice at least heavily monitored in all states.

The DSE is quite interesting in that I can find no mention of breeding practices or guidelines at all. Not even touched on. I'd have thought there would be at least some legislature regarding breeding in Victoria, but I cannot for the life of me find any and haven't been directed to any by other members here either.

 

[amazonian]

For goodness sake have a look at some international forums & you will see full clutches of designer jag morphs, all very desireable animals & anyone who states they are ugly is fooling themselves, not me!
These animals are leading the way in the USA, UK & Europe & the same will happen here.

How many clutches were produced to get these results you speak of?
As you said they are designer morphs right (meaning they have been line bred for many generations for certain traits?). So it is fair to say the results were ugly offspring early in the piece? because we all know putting a Coastal over a Jungle will not give us anywhere near the results of Jags advertised these days right?

Thanks but Id rather spend the time line breeding pure animals for similar results.

Don't confuse my statements about Hybrids (2 pure species cross bred) in Australia for anything remotrely to do with Jaguars. For starters jags do not concern me atm as they are not the problems being advertised as pure in this country.

 

[funcouple]

I hardly think they are ruined

As true bloodline are avalable overseas, why do you we think that ours are immediatly threatened here? Also hybrids are already available here, If you dont already second guess the bloodlines of your snakes the you purchace, than you are being far to trustworthy. last week on herptrader there was an inland x jungle for a rediculous price. but was a good pet, never bitten. what if someone wanted 'just a snake' and like the ideas of having it. would be a shame to hack at them in regards to their new pride and joy. these pics are all from over seas, but the amount that it already here makes me feel like many of you are burying your head in the sand. get used to the idea.
ren

im not burying my head in the sand. yes they are here. but they shouldnt be here in at least NSW, it states on your licence condition that its illegal to cross breed sub species together. hence why they shouldnt be here. sorry but NPWS should watch all clasifieds and seize all hybrids that come up for sale. yes this may push these hybrids under-ground, but it will make the sale of these hybrids harder as they wont be readily available.

 

[amazonian]

i dont think NPSW will actually go out and inspect unless they have hard core evidence, and also if they are not lazy as they are working for the government.

I can garuntee you that DEC will investigate, especially now with a new Quaruntine team.
My ex's house & my home was raided last week over my GTP's.
Because I used her internet account one day to advertise a yellow snake for sale DEC thought it was time for a random inspection and to make sure I wasn't harbouring exotics.
They had info on myself, my ex, my mother and even my grandfather. No idea how they got all that but they did. But all was good they just wanted to see the animals & my books etc.

My advice, be careful what you write on these forums hey.
They have more pull then you think.

 

[funcouple]

i dont think NPSW will actually go out and inspect unless they have hard core evidence, and also if they are not lazy as they are working for the government.

i called up the hotline when i rented a copied dvd movie from one of the dvd stores here in cabra... i called the number that they put on before the movie starts to report the violators... i was then transfered by the operator to another number after telling her there was a guy copying dvd's and selling them, i called that other number, and told them the story and they told me to call another number.... after 4 times of calling different numbers, and all of them not wanting to move their asses coz they just dont care, .

and the reason why i decided to report the guy, was because he pissed me off.

its fairly easy to get the evidence when an advertiser avderties a crossed snake. i.e. coastal xjungle, bredli x diamond. the evidence is there for all to see.

 

[draqonfly]

I can garuntee you that DEC will investigate, especially now with a new Quaruntine team.
My ex's house & my home was raided last week over my GTP's.
Because I used her internet account one day to advertise a yellow snake for sale DEC thought it was time for a random inspection and to make sure I wasn't harbouring exotics.
They had info on myself, my ex, my mother and even my grandfather. No idea how they got all that but they did. But all was good they just wanted to see the animals & my books etc.

My advice, be careful what you write on these forums hey.
They have more pull then you think.

thats nasty ! good to hear everything went ok.

just wish the other departments werent so lazy.

 

[Bax155]

I dont like em at all they just look odd, like if you were to wake up in the morning and go outside and the grass was blue and the sky green, it just wouldnt feel right would it?? Animals were created the way they were for a reason and not for us to play crazy scientists with cross breeding and inbreeding to get colours and patterns we find appealing, find a snake that appeals to you in its natural form dont change a snake to suit you, Im sure with all the snakes out there your sure to find one that you like!!