Designer Morphs

[Guest]

In my opinion, if nature throws a mutation in a species, then thats a great addition to the hobby. But it leaves a sour taste in my mouth when people hybridise species in captivity for the sole purpose of making a quick buck.

As reptile keepers and herpetologists, I feel we owe something to the animals in our care in captivity and to bastardise their species, I think is not in the best interests of the animals, their species in general and for the future reptile keepers who will inherit mongrel strains of animals and suffer the mistakes of a greedy few. (in my opinion)

Imagine this...what if there is a big move towards this deliberate hybridisation between species... and the government regulatory bodies such as the NPWS did'nt take to kindly to it, (which I'm sure they would'nt) and reacted in some way... such as maybe making the "monetary sale" of reptiles illegal as it was in the early 1990's in a bid to prevent hybridisation occuring?

 

[Retic]

I don't get it, didn't you already reply to this statement earlier on ? :?

I have included a photo of a carpet morph, now totally disregarding the fact that it was crossed, hybridised or whatever how many people can say with their hand on their heart that they wouldn't have this animal in their collection ?

:roll:

 

[Retic]

This is exactly the point, they are not for everyone and like buying a car you buy what appeals to you. It in no way hurts the snake, it is none the wiser as far as it's origins go. I do find these discussions extremely interesting and informative, I think as long as everyone respects the opinions of others it can only help our hobby long term and as long as we always have people breeding locale pure animals and we need that, I will have both in my collection.

if you dont like them you dont have to buy them

 

[ihaveherps]

I personally wouldnt touch these hybrids with a stick, but am looking into guaranteed Darwin Hets (which should be easily proven through F1 Albino x Normal pairing) and would be willing to pay around the 2000 mark.

Ad those cape trib jungles are stunning and i have been dying to get some for my collection.

Boa that hybrid is also a stunning animal IMO and honestly i probably would buy it (for the right price) as a display animal, even though i am trying my best to collect my animas locality pure for my own satisfaction, and if it was mine i wouldnt breed it.

I have kept an eye on this thread and was only motivated to post after reading the absurd number of these specific mutts to be produced! We all agree that hybrids are being produced, and if someone is doing it out of interest, experimenting with variation and sells them to correctly informed customers then good for them, as it is their perogative. But whom ever is looking at producing in this amount is only motivated by money, and producing this many F1's clearly shows their lack of interest in the project IMO. This Mr Greedy will never see a single dollar of my herp budget, and i am quite sure i am not alone!

Regards
Simon

 

[Retic]

Ihaveherps, that 'hybrid' is a Jag which was produced from 2 common or garden coastals. It is no more a hybrid than the albino carpets or Olives or other morphs that exist.

 

[steve6610]

but the std old hets - well - $130 for a std hybrid shows where the std hybrid market sits atm - and the breeder says they were 'ripper hatchlings'

the reason these were sold 4 that price was because they weren't feeding and i also sold our pure coastals for the same price, and some of the reds were also rippers, some of us aren't in it for the money,

check out my 4 sale add on here and you will see that i'm selling my unfeeding coastals for $130.00 each,

and as for being rippers, i've only got 3 left out of 18, that might speak for it self, or maybe it was just because they were cheap,

here's a pic of the one i'm keeping,

cheers,
steve..........

 

[ihaveherps]

So Boa, then that snake is a pic of an international Jag?

 

[Retic]

Yes it's in America

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

I would still like to know by what species concept we are going by? As taxonomy and our ideas of what a species constitutes changes the whole time. So maybe Ad can tell us what his idea of a pure species is? And what his idea of a hybrid is? And what his idea of a intergrade is? As far as I know Cape Yourks that are around are Hybrids? So would it be OK to cross these with Darwins as that is supposedly what happened with the First ones that were bred? Darwins were crossed with Cape Yourks? Why would anybody sell any of their first generation progeny in any case. I would be too interested in what their babies would look like. And it would be more profittable to sell possible hets in any case , as Simon Stone did this year (within a few days). All this thread is doing, is make us that have them realise that to keep them within their locality. It still wont stop me trying out new blood lines?

 

[ad]

MH, if you are not sure of this info - please do a forum search - you will find it has been covered many times.
I am happy you have learnt something from this thread.

All this thread is doing, is make us that have them realise that to keep them within their locality.

 

[stiffler]

I don't have a problem with morphs been bred from locality stock. Hypo Bredli's, Hypo Coastals, Striped Coastals etc. I don't like the idea of breeding crosses.
And by the way, I believe that Jags are bred from pure coastals, not crossed.

 

[Retic]

Yes that's what I said, everyone assumed that photo I posted was a hybrid but it's actually a pure coastal. It does show what's possible without offending the more sensitive :lol:

And by the way, I believe that Jags are bred from pure coastals, not crossed.

 

[NoOne]

I have included a photo of a carpet morph, now totally disregarding the fact that it was crossed, hybridised or whatever how many people can say with their hand on their heart that they wouldn't have this animal in their collection ?

This is what i ment to say before but it went wrong.

What you said there to me says it's a hybrid.

 

[Retic]

No, this is what I said, the whatever refers to whatever method that was used to create it.
'fact that it was crossed, hybridised or whatever'

 

[NoOne]

Ah k i get ya now, if it was a hybrid it would turn me off it no matter how it looked, if it were pure it would be great.
Hybrids just don't interest me.

 

[Retic]

That's exactly it, you thought it was a hybrid and you didn't like it but now you know it's pure it is OK. That was sort of what I was trying to show. :lol:

 

[Dicco]

I still think it just looks strange even though it's pure , that's just me

 

[NoOne]

I never said some hybrids didn't look nice, all i'm saying is that they lose all appeal if thats what they are, regardless of how they looked.

 

[indicus]

The original, and best represented, Cape York Carpet line was not the result of breeding a Cape York animal with a Darwin animal......as the original breeder assured me :roll: . Some seasons later; due to a accident an Atherton Male was used once....To use Cape York Carpet as an example; is poor at best; due to the remarkable variation in specimens found through out the north....They could all be classed as natural occurring cross's to some degree...
The term "variegata" best sums it up; until further studies can determine the differences (if any, other then colour) between NQ area forms....
As for whether i agree with these crazy designer hybrids?....each to their own; it'll happen, and has happened; regardless what i think.
The unproven "hets"....thats a combination of good marketing; and good luck!!!

 

[Reptile City]

Hi
In S.A. NPWL are collecting great amounts off information on breeders who DONT keep there reptiles pure!
I know they will be stopping imports of CROSSES & the like!
So the breeders looking for a market in S.A will be shocked when Import permits are not given for mungrels.
Its about ti :shock: me NPWL are getting more strict on the rules of keeping reptiles in Australia.

The Australian reptile market has grown massively & the governing departments are putting on many more staff.
I wonder when they will start confiscating Mungrels & handing out fines?
Will it be worth owning mungrels then?
I hope you all dont pay too much!
I dont mind the look off some mungrels but I wouldnt buy one!

I have also been told that there is no way Australia will be changing the laws on exotics either!
The risks off exotics to Australia far out ways the reasons to keep them as pets just because they look ok. :shock:

Cheers,
Jason Lapins