Nodrog
Active Member
they stock the poly something or rather i can remember the name....
some elapid picts
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kawasakirider
Very Well-Known Member
Can you keep antivenom if you pay for it?
It has a use by date, and there is also the problem of what would you stock if keeping multiple species. I know I couldn't afford to carry everything that might be needed and then replace it every 12 months or so.
kawasakirider
Very Well-Known Member
Yeah I realise there is a use by date, I just thought it would last longer than 12 months. I guess it would be hard and very expensive to stock EVERYTHING, but if you had certain snakes that could have their bites treated with the same antivenom (not sure what it's called, it's poly something) it may be worth it?
You guys that keep these snakes are really game. I wouldn't have the ticker for it lol. I'd always be in the herp room making sure they hadn't escaped.
J
junglepython2
Guest
It is polyvalent, however in Vic I'm pretty sure they use a combination of tiger and brown snake antivenom rather then the proper polyvalent one, but I may be wrong.
This is from http://secure.healthlinks.net.au/content/csl/pi.cfm?product=csppolyv10904
Indications
For the treatment of patients in Papua New Guinea and in all Australian states except Victoria and
Tasmania who exhibit manifestations of systemic snake envenoming and the snake has not been
definitely identified. In Tasmania, Tiger Snake Antivenom should be used rather than polyvalent
antivenom whilst in Victoria a combination of Tiger Snake Antivenom and Brown Snake Antivenom is
the preferred treatment.
POLYVALENT SNAKE ANTIVENOM should not be used when the snake has been identified, as
appropriate monovalent antivenom provides similar neutralisation of the venom without introducing the
larger amounts of equine protein present in the polyvalent product.
This is from http://secure.healthlinks.net.au/content/csl/pi.cfm?product=csppolyv10904
Indications
For the treatment of patients in Papua New Guinea and in all Australian states except Victoria and
Tasmania who exhibit manifestations of systemic snake envenoming and the snake has not been
definitely identified. In Tasmania, Tiger Snake Antivenom should be used rather than polyvalent
antivenom whilst in Victoria a combination of Tiger Snake Antivenom and Brown Snake Antivenom is
the preferred treatment.
POLYVALENT SNAKE ANTIVENOM should not be used when the snake has been identified, as
appropriate monovalent antivenom provides similar neutralisation of the venom without introducing the
larger amounts of equine protein present in the polyvalent product.
kawasakirider
Very Well-Known Member
So tigersnake antivenom would work to treat copperhead envenomation? All of this stuff is really interesting, but I'd be really worried if I was bitten and couldn't identify what bit me, that the doctors could give me the wrong stuff.
If someone is bitten by a taipan, and they think it's a brown snake, is the antivenom suitable? I heard somewhere that it was, but I'm probably wrong.
Thanks for the info
If someone is bitten by a taipan, and they think it's a brown snake, is the antivenom suitable? I heard somewhere that it was, but I'm probably wrong.
Thanks for the info
J
junglepython2
Guest
Tiger snake antivenom works fairly well on copperhead and black snake bites. If you were bitten by a tai, Im pretty sure you would want tai antivenom, im not sure how effective brown snake antivenom would be. I certainly wouldn't want to find out.
kawasakirider
Very Well-Known Member
Lol yeah, it would be fairly hairy... When they don't know and they wait for symptoms to present themselves to decide what action to take, is it possible that if you were bitten by something really dangerous, by the time they worked it out, it would be too late?
I want to go herping, but now I'm not so sure, haha.
I want to go herping, but now I'm not so sure, haha.
J
junglepython2
Guest
There are snake bite detection kits to identify the snake if need be.
Jonno from ERD
Very Well-Known Member
G'day all,
There's a little bit of misinformation with regards to antivenom in the last couple of pages.
Here's a thread I posted a couple of years ago that may be of interest - http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/snakebite-fatality-information-89473/
A small adder like that still carries enough venom to drop a healthy adult male with ease. A lot of people disregard juvenile adder bites as insignificant, and it will result in a tragedy one day. They can, and still do, kill people.
The doctor's inexperience with regards to snakebite treatment is not surprising. I have been to hospital twice for snakebite (G'day Ray), and both times the nurses or doctors have made mistakes that could potentially be life threatening if I was in a bad way. It is the keepers responsibility to have a thorough snakebite management plan, which should include information such as emergency contact numbers (for example, the AVRU), correct first aid treatment from immediately post bite right through to antivenom therapy etc. It is also the keepers responsibity to liase with local hospitals to ensure they stock appropriate antivenom, especially if you are regional.
Treating the bite properly immediately post bite generally won't have any effect on antivenom requirements later on. You will require antivenom if you are showing significant systemic symptoms (i.e. Several bad things happening at once). For a minor bite, they will just treat the minor symptoms individually. Correct first aid simply delays the onset of symptoms until you are in hospital, where they can have some form of control over them.
Antivenom is a heavily controlled drug, and cannot legally be kept by a keeper. It is only administerable by a doctor. With correct first aid, there is no need to have antivenom on hand. It generally has a use-by period of 3 years.
Polyvalent isn't a magic "get out of jail free card" - if it were, they wouldn't bother with any of the monovalent antivenoms. It is a last minute resort to stop someone dying, and generally comes with some nasty side effects.
The reason they don't use the CSL polyvalent antivenom in Victoria is because there are only two immunogroups that could cause a life-threatening bite (whilst if you were within 100km of Cairns, it could be any of the 5 terrestrial immunogroups). There are no Taipans, Adders, Mulga's etc in Victoria. The single Pseudechis species that occurs there is treated with Tiger Snake antivenom (but not all Pseudechis are treated with Tiger), as are Tigers and Copperheads. There are two species of Pseudonaja, both of which are treated with Brown antivenom.
Venom Detection Kits are an absolute God send. They don't tell you what species of snake bit you, they tell you what is the most effective antivenom to use if required. They aren't perfect, hence why three of them should be used before administering antivenom (to eliminate false positives), but they have undoubtedly saved hundreds of lives.
They work by adding a sample of the venom (generally via a swab of the bite site) to a series of different indicators - which ever shows up positive will indicate what antivenom to use. Depending on your location in Australia, this can sometimes tell you what species you were bitten by. For example, if you showed up positive for Tiger Snake on the Eyre Peninsula in South Australia, you were bitten by a Tiger...but if you showed up positive for Brown Snake on the Eyre, it could have been on of 3 species. But if you showed up positive for Tiger in Byron Bay in New South Wales, it could have been a host of species...but positive for Brown will be an Eastern Brown.
There's a little bit of misinformation with regards to antivenom in the last couple of pages.
Here's a thread I posted a couple of years ago that may be of interest - http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/snakebite-fatality-information-89473/
A small adder like that still carries enough venom to drop a healthy adult male with ease. A lot of people disregard juvenile adder bites as insignificant, and it will result in a tragedy one day. They can, and still do, kill people.
The doctor's inexperience with regards to snakebite treatment is not surprising. I have been to hospital twice for snakebite (G'day Ray), and both times the nurses or doctors have made mistakes that could potentially be life threatening if I was in a bad way. It is the keepers responsibility to have a thorough snakebite management plan, which should include information such as emergency contact numbers (for example, the AVRU), correct first aid treatment from immediately post bite right through to antivenom therapy etc. It is also the keepers responsibity to liase with local hospitals to ensure they stock appropriate antivenom, especially if you are regional.
Treating the bite properly immediately post bite generally won't have any effect on antivenom requirements later on. You will require antivenom if you are showing significant systemic symptoms (i.e. Several bad things happening at once). For a minor bite, they will just treat the minor symptoms individually. Correct first aid simply delays the onset of symptoms until you are in hospital, where they can have some form of control over them.
Antivenom is a heavily controlled drug, and cannot legally be kept by a keeper. It is only administerable by a doctor. With correct first aid, there is no need to have antivenom on hand. It generally has a use-by period of 3 years.
Polyvalent isn't a magic "get out of jail free card" - if it were, they wouldn't bother with any of the monovalent antivenoms. It is a last minute resort to stop someone dying, and generally comes with some nasty side effects.
The reason they don't use the CSL polyvalent antivenom in Victoria is because there are only two immunogroups that could cause a life-threatening bite (whilst if you were within 100km of Cairns, it could be any of the 5 terrestrial immunogroups). There are no Taipans, Adders, Mulga's etc in Victoria. The single Pseudechis species that occurs there is treated with Tiger Snake antivenom (but not all Pseudechis are treated with Tiger), as are Tigers and Copperheads. There are two species of Pseudonaja, both of which are treated with Brown antivenom.
Venom Detection Kits are an absolute God send. They don't tell you what species of snake bit you, they tell you what is the most effective antivenom to use if required. They aren't perfect, hence why three of them should be used before administering antivenom (to eliminate false positives), but they have undoubtedly saved hundreds of lives.
They work by adding a sample of the venom (generally via a swab of the bite site) to a series of different indicators - which ever shows up positive will indicate what antivenom to use. Depending on your location in Australia, this can sometimes tell you what species you were bitten by. For example, if you showed up positive for Tiger Snake on the Eyre Peninsula in South Australia, you were bitten by a Tiger...but if you showed up positive for Brown Snake on the Eyre, it could have been on of 3 species. But if you showed up positive for Tiger in Byron Bay in New South Wales, it could have been a host of species...but positive for Brown will be an Eastern Brown.
G
grizz
Guest
Good info jonno, might add a few of these points to my Emergency response Plan right now... speaking of which, has anyone got one they would like to upload for advance reptile licence?
saximus
Almost Legendary
Haha isn't that a requirement for getting your advanced licence in the first place .
Thanks for the info Jonno I found the statement - "Antivenom is a heavily controlled drug, and cannot legally be kept by a keeper." very interesting
.Thanks for the info Jonno I found the statement - "Antivenom is a heavily controlled drug, and cannot legally be kept by a keeper." very interesting
jack
Very Well-Known Member
i like this thread for photos. therefore i'll start a thread for you rather than add words.
Tassie97
Very Well-Known Member
in tas they use the same anti-venom for all our snakes tiger snake copperhead and whitelip just thought i would add this in
Snake Catcher Victoria
Almost Legendary
[video=youtube;iSPwSSqIsKk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSPwSSqIsKk[/video]
I know, it's not a pic but here is some footage of a redbelly found in a factory in Melbourne
I know, it's not a pic but here is some footage of a redbelly found in a factory in Melbourne
getarealdog
Well-Known Member
K I Tiger-Chucked her outside for half a day
& brought this guy in to start cooling him down
& brought this guy in to start cooling him down
E
Elite_Reptiles
Guest
Good looking Red Belly there Baz.
Nodrog
Active Member
Her is my new Inland Taipan Female...Oxyuranus microlepidotus
moosenoose
Legendary
Awwww now that's CUTE!
blakehose
Very Well-Known Member
Awwww now that's CUTE!
I agree!!
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