Cape York's - Jungles or Coastals?

[candycaine]

I found this site it show's that catagory that the australian pythons species fall under.

The Reptiles of Australia, Python page

 

[Waterrat]

I would like to know (don't we all?) who put up this site. Last update 2001 - not exactly current.

 

[ozziepythons]

You saying they don't have feelings? I swear whenever I say mean things to my pythons, especially the honey-ice-jungle-cape-yorks, they go all sooky. It's at these times they most like to be petted and stroked, spoken to in gentle, kind tones and soothed of their hurts.

The most successful breeder keep carpets in sound-proof boxes to avoid them overhearing any conversation they may construe as negative. That way no snakes get hurt feelings.

lol your a legend mate

 

[Rox.n.Lix]

You saying they don't have feelings? I swear whenever I say mean things to my pythons, especially the honey-ice-jungle-cape-yorks, they go all sooky. It's at these times they most like to be petted and stroked, spoken to in gentle, kind tones and soothed of their hurts.

The most successful breeder keep carpets in sound-proof boxes to avoid them overhearing any conversation they may construe as negative. That way no snakes get hurt feelings.

its true, my coastal is very ... modest. i swear he gets embarressed when he has to go to the toilet, and when i talk to him, i know he listens!

 

[candycaine]

oh is it didn't read it was 2001...and I'm sure not much would of really changed though.

 

[candycaine]

ohh maybe it could of I spose..

ok waterrat can you find information of what you where saying before about the 3 species names and how everything else comes under those as sub species? something the rest of us can have a sticky at. I'd be interested to see what your talking about and if it has any info about the cape york then that would be great. seeing there mainly what I keeps and have kept for 6 years I'd like to find out as much as possible about this species.

 

[Waterrat]

Go into primary literature (i.e. scientific papers) and look up work done by Rawlings & Donnellan). I have done my homework, you can do yours. lol
Talk to leading professional herpetologists (not amateur pet keepers) and listen to their views on that subject. Sometimes you have to beyond internet forums to find out "real" information.

 

[JasonL]

Sometimes you have to go beyond internet forums to find out "real" information.

What? and speak to actual working herpetologists??? Thats just crazy talk!!

 

[Waterrat]

What's crazy about it Jason?
I was recently trying get my head around this mysterious Morelia harrissoni and "Cape York carpets" (so called). I had discussions with Pat Coorper (QM), Rick Shine, Glen Shae, Dane Trembath, David Williams (PNG) and other herpetologists of high standing. They were all very helpful and I got the information I wanted.
Crazy?

 

[JasonL]

Tongue in Cheek mate .... don't you know me by now? :lol:

 

[ezekiel86]

All pythons are amazing
But jungles would be my pick sorry Coastals lovers !

 

[Waterrat]

I like the coast, jungle scares me. I am only a little boy.
... time to turn the computer off. Mom said.

 

[BROWNS]

I've always said the smaller coastal fringe type jungles have to be classed differently they only attain small adult sizes compared to all the rest of the carpets whats's the reason as it's not shortage of food and food size they live alongside scrubbies and could easily get to a big size but why don't they..there's plenty of unanswered stuff that fascinates me it's not all about keeping some pythons in a box!!

 

[derekm]

ok waterrat can you find information of what you where saying before about the 3 species names and how everything else comes under those as sub species? something the rest of us can have a sticky at. I'd be interested to see what your talking about and if it has any info about the cape york then that would be great. seeing there mainly what I keeps and have kept for 6 years I'd like to find out as much as possible about this species.

Go into primary literature (i.e. scientific papers) and look up work done by Rawlings & Donnellan). I have done my homework, you can do yours. lol
Talk to leading professional herpetologists (not amateur pet keepers) and listen to their views on that subject. Sometimes you have to beyond internet forums to find out "real" information.

Waterrat, as a document that is easily obtainable on the web, yet appears to be a comprehensive summary of recent work, what do you think of Hoser's "CREATIONISM AND CONTRIVED SCIENCE: A REVIEW OF RECENT PYTHON SYSTEMATICS PAPERS AND THE RESOLUTION OF ISSUES OF TAXONOMY AND NOMENCLATURE" (http://www.smuggled.com/AJHI2.pdf) as a starting point for candycaine? For a scientific paper, it contains far more "rant" and personal attacks than I am comfortable with, but I'm interested in your view as to whether the scientific content represents a reasonable description of the current state of knowledge? If not, then the document might still be useful to candycaine just for the list of citations at the end.

 

[Serpentes]

Hoser's article is not considered science because it is not published in a peer-reviewed journal. The publications in which said articles regularly appear are as much "science" as something that you print on your PC, give to your friends and disseminate via the internet. I would only recommend said articles as examples of how best not to achieve a reputable career in science.

Science, per se, is a construct of a large body of qualified researchers who value external reviews of their work, and submit it for genuine academic critique and often outright rejection, prior to publication in peer reviewed journals.

 

[derekm]

Hoser's article is not considered science because it is not published in a peer-reviewed journal. The publications in which said articles regularly appear are as much "science" as something that you print on your PC, give to your friends and disseminate via the internet. I would only recommend said articles as examples of how best not to achieve a reputable career in science.

Science, per se, is a construct of a large body of qualified researchers who value external reviews of their work, and submit it for genuine academic critique and often outright rejection, prior to publication in peer reviewed journals.

Understand and agree that it is suspect by definition due to the manner of its publication but, in spite of that, is the content (minus the rants and personal attacks) worth reading or do you think it would be too difficult for an amateur to separate the useful information from the dross? Many of us would much prefer to get our information only from peer reviewed journals but are limited by time and competing calls on our resources to using the internet for much of our "hobby" research.

 

[Serpentes]

is the content (minus the rants and personal attacks) worth reading or do you think it would be too difficult for an amateur to separate the useful information from the dross?

Many Australian herpetologists just try and ignore it and hope it goes away. It hasn't worked yet, but we'll keep trying. If everyone did their part, the end might be achieved sooner.

:lol:

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Cutting through all the academic species stance, it doesn’t matter if DNA benchmarks set by scientists tell the reptile keeping community that a jungle carpet is the same species as a diamond python or not because even a three 3 year child could tell you that they look different and the majority of keepers and dealers will always split them, and for good reason. Could it be that the scientists are the ones who are behind the eight ball simply because current science isn’t yet good enough to identify the genetic material differences that make a diamond python or a Jungle carpet. Even if scientific knowledge one day does get clever enough, I have to wonder if those benchmarks whatever they are, will change and we see more sub-species recognised.

 

[Waterrat]

Derekm, Hoser lives in his own little world of bull.... and no one listens to him any more. He discredited himself with his "smuggler" antics and his sloppy, amateur taxonomy is not any better. As Serpentes said, he has been ignored and I am afraid he always will be because some damage he has done is just irreparable. I can't comment on the content of his work because I don't read it any more.

 

[Serpentes]

Cutting through all the academic species stance, it doesn’t matter if DNA benchmarks set by scientists tell the reptile keeping community that a jungle carpet is the same species as a diamond python or not because even a three 3 year child could tell you that they look different and the majority of keepers and dealers will always split them, and for good reason. Could it be that the scientists are the ones who are behind the eight ball simply because current science isn’t yet good enough to identify the genetic material differences that make a diamond python or a Jungle carpet. Even if scientific knowledge one day does get clever enough, I have to wonder if those benchmarks whatever they are, will change and we see more sub-species recognised.

That's a fairly under-appreciative standpoint! You'll likely see less subspecies recognised in the future with advances in classification allowing the eradication of splitters who just like to name things because they look different.

A three year old child's viewpoint on taxonomy "because they look different" is, sadly, about the level that many reptile keepers attain regarding biological processes, and will not further our understanding of ecology and evolution.