G'day all,
I have to say that since I know both Shane and Bob that I have no desire to be dragging into the middle of their current s@*tfight.
That being said, I nearly choked on my coffee this morning when I read Bob's post about Ray Hoser's incredibly lame attempt last year to steal the thunder from Rawlings and Donnellan (2003) by presuming to guess at their results, and jump in first with a
"name" for the the Australian
Morelia viridis ...
That's right, just like he has done previously with Ulrich Kuch's
Pseudechis work, Ken Aplin's
Acanthophis etc, Hoser thought he'd beat legitimate scientists to the punch by erecting a name for the Australian chondros - having assumed that Rawlings and Donnellan would do exactly that themselves. Hoser's motive's: simply to force the real scientists to have to adopt his name under current rules of nomenclatural priority laid down by the ICZN.
For the benefit of people here, the following is the
"diagnosis" of the Australian
Morelia viridis population provided by Hoser (2003) in
"Five new Australian pythons" Newsletter of the Macarthur Herpetological Society Issue 40, August 2003:4-9:
DIAGNOSIS
Chondropython viridis shireenae sp. nov. are the only Green Pythons (C. viridis) found on mainland Australia and can be separated from all other C. viridis on this basis.
In the absence of good locality data, the subspecies is best separated from other C. viridis by comparative DNA analysis, which has already been successfully used to separate this subspecies.
Australian C. viridis have as adults, white or other markings along the vertebra and few other markings, whereas those from elsewhere do not always have this trait. Hence this is a diagnostic character for Australian specimens of C. viridis.
As a trend, vertebral markings decline with age. General dorsal markings, sometimes in the form of blotches and mid-dorsal markings are generally far more common in juvenile C. viridis of all subspecies, especially those from outside Australia.
The range of C. viridis shireenae subsp. nov. is only in very wet habitats of the lowlands and nearby range areas on the east side of Cape York from about the MacMillan River drainage in the north to the area around the Normanby River drainage in the south. This includes the Sir William Thompson and McIlwraith Ranges both in the general vicinity of the Iron Range National Park.
Essentially all Hoser is saying is that
"they live in Australia, therefore they are different" - a claim that has absolutely no scientific basis, but which is a fairly typical ploy used by Hoser in many of his so-called
"scientific papers".
Vague comments about Australian snakes having white vertebral markings and that this is a valid diagnostic criteron since
those from elsewhere do not always have this trait
are absolute rubbish. A characteristic that is proposed as a means of differentiating closely related species MUST be uniform and distinctive - white vertebral markings - by Hoser's own admission are clearly not.
Later Hoser says
Comparative DNA testing can separate Australian C. viridis shireenae from other C. viridis.
Given that his paper contains absolutely NO DNA DATA whatsoever, and given that he has NO SCIENTIFIC QUALIFICATIONS in molecular biology, zoology or anything else that might enable him to carry out any form of DNA studies whatsoever - not that he makes any claim to having done so ... this sort of red herring statement is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to bluff his readers into thinking he has carried out DNA analyses of some sort.
The DNA evidence that does count is that provided by Rawlings & Donnellan (2003). Their study was carried out according to accepted standard of scientific practice, and the results were subjected to peer review (scrutiny from suitably qualified scientists working in the same disciplines) prior to being published in an internationally recognised scientific journal - not (and my apologies to McArthur Herp Society Members) some backyard newsletter cobbled together for the benefit of a small group of reptile enthusiasts.
Getting back to me nearly choking on my coffee ... the reason I did so is because this is the first time that I have ever seen Bob try to use Hoser's material to win an argument.
Bob - what the hell has come over you mate :?:
You are renowned for being a herpetoculturalist who sees through Ray's bullshit - and you are respected for that. Don't turn to the darkside now mate. :wink:
To both of you (Shane and Bob) I have to say that this little bunfight, while entertaining is very unnecessary. Green pythons arn't anything special - I chuck them off the roads in PNG all the time. I mean let's get real guys - yes they are colourful little beasties, and down here the errr... suckers ... ooops sorry I mean keepers do seem willing to part with huge slabs of cash to own one ... but let's look at this realistically from a prospective pet owners perspective:
1. They ARE LOUSY PETS - folks these things are nasty!!! :shock: They'll tear your face off as soon as look at you ... they are intractably defensive and cannot be handled ... freehandling taipans is safer!
2. See (1) above.
Personally I've never paid more than K10 (A$4.00) for one ... and only then simply to save it from a cooking pot and release the poor bugger back into the scrub ... the only ones I bother to keep are injured animals (sadly quite a few) in need of TLC ... and even they are ungrateful psychotic maniacs :shock:
The more experienced people on these forums have a responsibility to TRY and present a responsible, courteous common face to new and upcoming keepers. That means me, Bob, Shane and quite a few others. Guys we don't always achieve that goal, but let's at least make an effort eh? :wink:
People here don't need to see squabbling, they need to see constructive posts that give them the knowledge needed to keep their animals under the best possible conditions and in the best possible health.
Cheers
Dave
