DECC minimum enclosure size discussion.

[Jason]

Not publishing the proposal to all of us is wrong. We should have right to express our concerns. That is what I don't like about all this.

And Jason just remember one thing. What you heard could be different to what can happen.

i agree its wrong, we should be able to see it.

what i hear may be wrong but what is bad is that me and everyone else on here is relying on what we are hearing and we dont really know what is fact and what is fiction.

 

[scutatus]

Let's see what the DECC come up with when we front then with reason and experience. I dot think we have a lot to worry about at this point. Just a show of strength from our respected and experienced allays should hopefully help iron out some of the issues.

 

[-Peter]

The arguement is against the blanket introduction of generalised enclosures sizes to fit generic groups. Not individual species. There is also the implication made by DECC that the cage sizes are not guidleines. That if they are included they will be enforcable.

 

[Lozza]

The arguement is against the blanket introduction of generalised enclosures sizes to fit generic groups. Not individual species.

Well that could be interesting considering that DECC have stimsoni listed under Liasis, right next to olivaceus

 

[chilli]

why are the drafts marked 'confidential' - is that to restrict any public input?

how did they come up with the areas anyway like 4square metres for 1 water dragon?

and the floor area for 1 or 2 animals when species such as Egernia depressa that live in colonies, need the same space for say 10 animals as 1 and do better with being kept in a colony.

the turtle tank size may be ok for adult turtles but a hatchling expansa or piggy doesn't need 6 cubic metres and baby piggies don't need any land area, but this is required?

some two-headed in-bred public servant trying to make his mark on the hobby to the detriment of everyone who keeps herps.(just venting)

regarding the sizes, why don't they accommodate the existing marketed caging. like where they require 4000sq cm, which is just picked out of the air anyway, accept 3600 which would be the standard 60x60 instead of 63x64 to get your 4000. there would be less drama if their sizes fitted conventional caging sizes.

 

[Ramsayi]

why are the drafts marked 'confidential' - is that to restrict any public input?

how did they come up with the areas anyway like 4square metres for 1 water dragon?

and the floor area for 1 or 2 animals when species such as Egernia depressa that live in colonies, need the same space for say 10 animals as 1 and do better with being kept in a colony.

the turtle tank size may be ok for adult turtles but a hatchling expansa or piggy doesn't need 6 cubic metres and baby piggies don't need any land area, but this is required?

some two-headed in-bred public servant trying to make his mark on the hobby to the detriment of everyone who keeps herps.(just venting)

regarding the sizes, why don't they accommodate the existing marketed caging. like where they require 4000sq cm, which is just picked out of the air anyway, accept 3600 which would be the standard 60x60 instead of 63x64 to get your 4000. there would be less drama if their sizes fitted conventional caging sizes.

Have you actually seen the draft? You may want to revise the figure of
4sqm for water dragons

 

[wokka]

how did they come up with the areas anyway like 4square metres for 1 water dragon?

.

It is amazing how with all the hysteria people assume the worst . Where did you come up with figures like 4 square meters? 4000cm2 is actually four tenths of a square meter or 40cm x 100cm.

 

[MissHiss]

Wokka... If i was to order 0.4mtrs x 1.0mtrs of tiles i would end up with 0.4mtrs of tiles, (or half a pack) not even enough to line half a standard shower cubicle floor not 4.0mtrs2 or even 4000cm2...........................
4mtrs2 is in simple terms 1.0mtrs or 1000cm x 4mtrs or 4000cm or 2mtrs x 2mtrs

 

[MissHiss]

Hi Greebo, If the 3rd dimension comes into it, that is classed as cubic mtrs as in how you would order a skip bin

 

[Slateman]

Have you actually seen the draft? You may want to revise the figure of
4sqm for water dragons

Whoo that is big.
4square meters is area 4 metre long and 1 meter wide.

 

[Ramsayi]

Whoo that is big.
4square meters is area 4 metre long and 1 meter wide.

Yes that is big.It is also wrong.
As Wokka already wrote 4000cm2 is 0.4 square meter.

 

[Colin]

At the end of the day the committee is representing the various herp societies around the state so why are members being kept in the dark as to how the committee is operating?

Exactly. No wonder there is concerns when the whole situation is being treated like some cloak and dagger situation where the general herp community is being kept in the dark by the committe that are supposed to represent them and also the DECC.

Why is their no transparency in what negotiations and progress are being made? If its all above board, then why the need for this secrecy??

Who are these people on the committee that are representing reptile keepers? Can we have a full list of names and their affilliations please? And also their qualifications to make recommendations concerning the keeping and care of reptiles in captivity?

For example if they are a private reptile hobbyist, a professional herpetologist etc or do they represent a commercial business interest? I think that we, as the people being represented by this group should at least have the right to the names and affiliations (if any) of the people that are supposed to be representing us.

I know theres some members on here who are on this committee, and would appreciate (as Im sure others would also) some information of whose actually on this group (names, affiliation, qualifications) that are representing us please. thanks.

I'd also like to know if possible (if anyone does know) who exactly are the people who are advising the DECC on their side of this situation on the appropriate enclosure sizes etc? And also their qualifications to make these recommendations concerning the keeping and care of reptiles in captivity?

I've been worried this whole proposal may be influenced by animal liberationists or similar political lobbyists who dont like us keeping animals anyway. Why is the whole process being done in secret and without any transparency of whats going on etc?

This secrecy only adds to concerns that something is going on they all dont want us to know about.

 

[Zoltag]

I am only "in the know" because I am very active in helping out at my local herp society. Each herp society is aware of what is going on. And I would also guess that all the other herp societies are like ours and in desperate need of more people to help run them. They are not a closed shop. Get involved and you will not need to read all of these threads most of which are full of totally incorrect information.

Being involved is a nice dream for me - Unfortunately I dont have much time to call my own at the moment and having to rely on PT to get anywhere in Sydney, well I'm sure that more than one person here would be able to sympathise with that

What I find really irritating is the number of people who say that everything will be alright and just to wait. The big problem I have with that is that by waiting for 'something' to happen means waiting for the legislation to be passed - And by the time it is passed, it is pretty much too late, as it is a lot easier to make changes before legislation is passed.

 

[wokka]

I am representing SOFAR and they are not being kept in the dark. I have discussed the issues at a couple of meeting and with the SOFAR committee. Any SOFAR members are welcome to contact me if they have concerns.

 

[jamgo]

How do other people find out what's going on ? Not everyone lives near a society or has zoltag said not everyone has the time to be involved .

 

[Ramsayi]

The committee is made up of a representative from each of the herp societies as well as a few well known herpetologists. How else are the DECC supposed to engage with hobbyists?

 

[jamgo]

The committee is made up of a representative from each of the herp societies as well as a few well known herpetologists. How else are the DECC supposed to engage with hobbyists?

Yes we already know this .......... these representatives are members of these forums whats wrong with posting what they tell there society members so everyone knows where it at.

 

[Ramsayi]

Yes we already know this .......... these representatives are members of these forums whats wrong with posting what they tell there society members so everyone knows where it at.

Probably because the representatives have been engaged on behalf of herp societies not online forums which are not included in the consultation process.

 

[=bECS=]

Also the fact they probably have confidentiality agreements too rams

 

[zulu]

re DECC

They are best to concentrate on one thing like species keeping lists,get that right,then worry about cage sizes and petshops etc,if they have any time left they can get out and look after wildlife.