DECC minimum enclosure size discussion.

[Cabotinage]

and me and dad where talking about getting a table enclosure and housing something in that.

oh and also talking about when my coastal of a year should go into a big enclosure as he is a year old about 1.3m long???? and in a 3x2x2 cage (3long)

so if this follows through ill need a what size enclosure? it probably wont fit through my door or garage.

 

[Slytherin]

so if this follows through ill need a what size enclosure? it probably wont fit through my door or garage.

The garage would BE the enclosure

 

[zulu]

re DECC

I dont give a rats what DECC comes up with,i keep reptiles in cages and heat them,cycling etc the way i think is best,ive found that many species actually like living in the rack systems ile be getting more,they can go to billyo with there trendy ilinformed animal liberationist suck up ideas.

 

[pythonmum]

No one seems to have seen the proposal, so it may not have originated with DECC at all. I think it's premature to get overly worked up. If anyone can provide a link to the proposal which gives it validity, I'd be interested to read it.

 

[SammySnakes]

It is a draft that has originated with DECC and as someone has previously stated, it is not available for comment to the public as yet, only to a small number of herp reps.

As they currently stand, the cage sizes are ridiculously large and with good sense, will be drastically reduced whilst still in draft form. Surely the proposed standards won't go ahead, but if they do, people have a very good reason to be overly worked up.

 

[adz83]

and this is all happening just as im about to order my new enclosures.....looks like i mite hav to put em on hold for the moment

i only live in a small place n theres noway i can keep all my snakes in novelty sized enclosures....its ridiculous

 

[Jason]

I dont give a rats what DECC comes up with,i keep reptiles in cages and heat them,cycling etc the way i think is best,ive found that many species actually like living in the rack systems ile be getting more,they can go to billyo with there trendy ilinformed animal liberationist suck up ideas.

Im with you! screw em... i dont need some clown telling me what is best. as rams said, they wont breed if they arent kept and maintained properly...my setup speeks for itself.

No one seems to have seen the proposal, so it may not have originated with DECC at all. I think it's premature to get overly worked up. If anyone can provide a link to the proposal which gives it validity, I'd be interested to read it.

premature..., there have already been a good half a dozen meeting in regards to this between a select few and the DECC trying to come up with sizes... because the keepers and DECC cant come to an agreement, from what i hear they have said if the keepers and DECC cant agree then the DECC will go ahead with what ever sizes they want... and there is said to be a deadline. premature, it is happening and has been in discussion for months now.

Underground hobby is very likely if they do it! this would also increase the number of exotics


One of the biggest issues i have is the 'selected' keepers that are sitting in on the meetings, from what i hear they have to be PHD's etc (correct me if im wrong) but i dont think some 'know it all' that only have ever done conservation biology etc knows jack about husbendry of all species.

I know that members of this forum are involved in the discussions so surely they can shed some lilght on the subject??

 

[mungus]

I currently keep all my large snakes in over sized enclosures [ bar the stimmies which are kept in 600Wx500Dx500H enclosures. So I dont mind the larger enclosures, I get better temp. gradient in them anyway and will continue to use them.
But then I have the room.....:lol::lol:

 

[zack13]

Im with you! screw em... i dont need some clown telling me what is best. as rams said, they wont breed if they arent kept and maintained properly...my setup speeks for itself.



premature..., there have already been a good half a dozen meeting in regards to this between a select few and the DECC trying to come up with sizes... because the keepers and DECC cant come to an agreement, from what i hear they have said if the keepers and DECC cant agree then the DECC will go ahead with what ever sizes they want... and there is said to be a deadline. premature, it is happening and has been in discussion for months now.

Underground hobby is very likely if they do it! this would also increase the number of exotics


One of the biggest issues i have is the 'selected' keepers that are sitting in on the meetings, from what i hear they have to be PHD's etc (correct me if im wrong) but i dont think some 'know it all' that only have ever done conservation biology etc knows jack about husbendry of all species.

I know that members of this forum are involved in the discussions so surely they can shed some lilght on the subject??

Im not saying your wrong but I dont think that people with their doctorate will not be informed about reptiles. They study them for a year then write atleast 100,000 word essay about it that has to be approved not just anything gets through. So I wouldn't be worrying about them more about the DECC not listening to them and making them whatever they want.

 

[redcentrerodents]

Far out

What about collections like that of John Weigel and Snake Ranch????


surely he would be in talks with the people drafting these new regulation's, i bet he would be against these proposals and may have some input, no???

 

[swaddo]

Im not saying your wrong but I dont think that people with their doctorate will not be informed about reptiles. They study them for a year then write atleast 100,000 word essay about it that has to be approved not just anything gets through. So I wouldn't be worrying about them more about the DECC not listening to them and making them whatever they want.

LOL, i know ppl with a doctorate that still couldnt find their bum with both hands. you cant teach common sense

 

[scam7278]

so if they do bring in the minimum cage sizes and we cant afford to keep snakes in these oversized enclosures, what happens to all the snake that are being kept now? do we hand them all back into DECC? and will thay have the room to hold 1000's of unwanted animals? aswell as keep to their hygene protacol?

 

[Bushfire]

The concerns over this piece of legislation are very real. It has been in the proposed stage for some years now, use the search function on in this forum and read some of Jeff Hardy's (former head of enforcement)posts. We have been told its coming whether we like it or not but haven't publically seen the finer print, but judging from some reactions of those that have seen it, it doesn't look too impressive. Its based loosely around a few documents with Victoria's Code of Practice being one of them. The big difference being that Victoria's one is only a guideline whereas the NSW one will be a law.

 

[Jungletrans]

l hate rack systems , keeping large snakes in tubs is like battery hens in my opinion . All my pythons are in large enclosures and l only keep as many as l can house in them . lf they get carried away with cage sizes , well , l live in Victoria . Not a problem .

 

[zoolander]

since when did DECC have jurisdiction over animal welfare. their job is to ensure animals are obtained lawfully. they can have guidelines which make them feel all warm and fuzzy, but enforcement and prosecution.....well ask John Elliott......"pigsass"

 

[wokka]

Underground hobby is very likely if they do it! this would also increase the number of exotics


One of the biggest issues i have is the 'selected' keepers that are sitting in on the meetings, from what i hear they have to be PHD's etc (correct me if im wrong) but i dont think some 'know it all' that only have ever done conservation biology etc knows jack about husbendry of all species.

I know that members of this forum are involved in the discussions so surely they can shed some lilght on the subject??

The keeper representatives include a very broad experience in keeping snakes,lizards and turtles. Some do have PHDs but they also keep large collections for display and breeding, both privately and publicly and have done for many years. I wouldn't discribe them as "know it alls".
The question is: Are DECC going to take notice of the advisory group or is it merely lip service to satisfy the requirements for public consultation?

 

[links]

The keeper representatives include a very broad experience in keeping snakes,lizards and turtles. Some do have PHDs but they also keep large collections for display and breeding, both privately and publicly and have done for many years. I wouldn't discribe them as "know it alls".
The question is: Are DECC going to take notice of the advisory group or is it merely lip service to satisfy the requirements for public consultation?

Well said Wokka!
Jason: I wouldnt be bagging anyone sitting in on those meetings. They are on our side, whether they are phds or not, im sure they have our reptiles best interests at heart.
a group of ten of them would have more experince with reptile husbandry than all the people on APS put together.

 

[-Peter]

The problem is wokka that the advisory group is not made up of keepers. It is made up of a variety of people with varying ideology. Some impose their own ideas of anthropomorphism onto the animals we keep.
They raise points like "How would you feel if you were forced to live in a plastic tray with a sheet of newspaper, heat gradient, bowl of water, shed assist item and all the rodents you could eat. You wouldn't like it would you?"
Well I would if I was a spotted python.

 

[Jason]

The keeper representatives include a very broad experience in keeping snakes,lizards and turtles. Some do have PHDs but they also keep large collections for display and breeding, both privately and publicly and have done for many years. I wouldn't discribe them as "know it alls".
The question is: Are DECC going to take notice of the advisory group or is it merely lip service to satisfy the requirements for public consultation?

Well who are they and why aren't they named? seems to me that we are getting less and less say in our hobby, so i think that all the details should be out in the open. if they expect me to keep paying to keep animals and expect people to do things legit DECC/NPWS really need to get their act together.

Jason: I wouldnt be bagging anyone sitting in on those meetings. They are on our side, whether they are phds or not, im sure they have our reptiles best interests at heart.
a group of ten of them would have more experince with reptile husbandry than all the people on APS put together.

My comments may be blunt but im not 'bagging' them. what im trying to say is that its wrong that such a huge and influential rule lies in the hands of people we dont know... i dont even know who or what they are?
assuming a group of ten would know more you would need to know who the ten would be... i dont, if you do id be very interested to know... maybe it will put me at ease. Either way i know they are fighting for our rights and trying to help us, the thing is hate the most is that we dont know that the DECC are actually listening or whethere they are there just to keep people happy.

Im going to leave it at that for now, i dont want to get to worked up or over the top about something i obviously have no control over nor say in. Nor do we know what may or may not happen or change.... ill wait and see. until then i only hope that the sizes are realistic cause from what iv seen and heard they aren't

 

[JasonL]

It won't be a mammoth task for them, they will bring in the rules, and only enforce them if they want to, ie, they do a spot inspection, and if they don't like you, or think you need a kick up the backside, they will use these laws to do so, again, if they think someone is selling a bit on the commercial side, they may also use these laws at will to pin them.... I think these laws will be a handy tool for them to help flex their muscles against those they want to.