reptile sale slump???

[Addam]

Alot of people are thinking the same thing, only the market for the more "plain" looking snakes is going down, but this isnt true. One of my very good friend has some of the darkest queensland coastals that I have ever seen (and has achieved this with very good but selective breeding). He used to be able to sell a whole clutch (of 30+) within 6 months or so. Where as now he still has at least half of them left from this season.

And there is a few reasons for this, as other people in this thread have said pet stores are not moving there stock that well, the 2 local pet stores in my city, have had the same snakes for months. they just aren't selling. Another reason is that the market for snakes has slowed, as we can see from breeders and pet stores alike. So it isn't necessarily because of over breeding or anything like that, maybe it is just the game of supply and demand finally catching up with us all. And honestly i think a good spike in quantity might decrease some prices which is nothing but good news for people like me who are looking to buy. It may even *fingers crossed* take down the 100%+ mark up that pet shops have on there reptile, and maybe move them down to a bit better price.

But before anyone tries yelling at me for what has been said, just remember that the WHOLE economic system is based on this, supply and demand deviates, depending on many different factors.

Just my opinion but thanks to even one for this thread, has been very interesting to follow along and get people opinions.

P.S to solve the whole freezing thing have you tried putting the snakes on this site for free to good home? cause surely they would be taken in the blink of an eye? but if i am wrong im sorry

 

[Addam]

some excellent and thought provoking debate. I am pleased to see some prominent breeders engaging in this debate also.
Yes, it is about quality animals - i don't think (personally) that it is about morphs. A robust, healthy and true-to-type pythons is a beautiful animal to behold - regardless of whether that animal is a gtp or a coastal carpet python.
Let's not head down the path of our colleagues in america. We have the most beautiful (and prolific!!) pythons species in the world. Let's celebrate what we have, promote our hobby wherever we can and resist the denigration of our hobby to a collection of animals that are merely a commodity.
Cheers!

agreed montay!

 

[Gecko :)]

How anyone could even think about freezing a perfectly healthy animal is beyond me,...
I could NEVER do that,.
If this is peoples intentions they really should not be breeding anything!
Surely these animals that are not being sold could be given away to spare their lives!! ,. thats just awful.

I hope the hobby picks up,. as others have mentioned, I really believe if we had more options on advertising etc to the general public it would make a huge difference, instead of having to deal behing closed doors,.
Expos are a great to envolve the general public,. but these expos need to be properly advertised so everyone hears about them..... Bring on the Expos!!

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

Alot of people are thinking the same thing, only the market for the more "plain" looking snakes is going down, but this isnt true. One of my very good friend has some of the darkest queensland coastals that I have ever seen (and has achieved this with very good but selective breeding). He used to be able to sell a whole clutch (of 30+) within 6 months or so. Where as now he still has at least half of them left from this season.

And there is a few reasons for this, as other people in this thread have said pet stores are not moving there stock that well, the 2 local pet stores in my city, have had the same snakes for months. they just aren't selling. Another reason is that the market for snakes has slowed, as we can see from breeders and pet stores alike. So it isn't necessarily because of over breeding or anything like that, maybe it is just the game of supply and demand finally catching up with us all. And honestly i think a good spike in quantity might decrease some prices which is nothing but good news for people like me who are looking to buy. It may even *fingers crossed* take down the 100%+ mark up that pet shops have on there reptile, and maybe move them down to a bit better price.

But before anyone tries yelling at me for what has been said, just remember that the WHOLE economic system is based on this, supply and demand deviates, depending on many different factors.

Just my opinion but thanks to even one for this thread, has been very interesting to follow along and get people opinions.

P.S to solve the whole freezing thing have you tried putting the snakes on this site for free to good home? cause surely they would be taken in the blink of an eye? but if i am wrong im sorry

Good to see the buyer's perspective as well Addam. You make a good point in that there are clearly other factors at work in the slump of sales. For all intents and purposes, in the context of the economy at large, keeping reptiles is a luxury. Given that the globe at large and Australia specifically, is just starting to recover from a planetwide recession, money is tight for most in the developed world and it is well documented that luxury purchases are the first to go. Obviously this is more applicable to those for whom $150 means the difference between 3 meals a day versus 2.

There is undoubtedly a glut in supply as well hence why I would wonder if the higher end, rarer animals would be as heavily hit sales wise. Limited supply, more demand.

The future, as has been pointed out before, is definitely in expanding interest in our hobby. The more the general public at large becomes informed of just how wonderful reptiles are, not only will it start saving snakes from the shovel, it will begin to provide homes for some of these surplus animals everyone is breeding.

 

[Gecko :)]

oops

 

[bluey66]

How anyone could even think about freezing a perfectly healthy animal is beyond me,...
I could NEVER do that,.
If this is peoples intentions they really should not be breeding anything!
Surely these animals that are not being sold could be given away to spare their lives!! ,. thats just awful.

I hope the hobby picks up,. as others have mentioned, I really believe if we had more options on advertising etc to the general public it would make a huge difference, instead of having to deal behing closed doors,.
Expos are a great to envolve the general public,. but these expos need to be properly advertised so everyone hears about them..... Bring on the Expos!!

l agree with what Gecko has said here, how could anyone even think about freezing a beautiful healthy Reptile is also beyond me, and if they do do it they should be reported to the RSPCA and who ever there wildlife licence is registered with in their state.

l myself could not freeze any captive Reptile in my care, unless they were so close to death and had no hope of surviving in captivity.

lf there is no demand for what you keep and breed from your collection you should think twice about breeding your Reptile's, and if they do breed and there is no demand for them, why don't you pass them onto a beginner or sell them at a bargain price to a newcomer to the herp scene.

lf l ever hear of anyone freezing there captive Reptile's just to rid of them cause there is no demand for them in the pet trade, l will be straight onto the phone to the Authorities in that state to report them for animal cruelty and l mean it 100%.

 

[CodeRed]

wow there are some naive people here.

How many womas do you think were frozen last season?

 

[boxhead]

Great thread . have a much better understanding of what breeders go thru now .
So i would like to ask . 1- how low would the price of enter level snakes ( macs,stimes, ect ect ) have to be before you would not breed them next year . 2- you would decide to stop breeding them all together and sell off your breeding stock to concentrate on on other snakes in your collection .

 

[Gecko :)]

wow there are some naive people here.

How many womas do you think were frozen last season?

What has Naive got to do with my opinion?
Im not saying it isnt happening,. but does that make it ok does it?

If you cant keep hold of your animals until they are sold or given away the DONT BREED THEM! you cant tell me people practising this are in it for the love of it,. .. Bull crap!

I have no idea how many Womas were frozen last year,. all I know is none of them were mine.

 

[CodeRed]

Great thread . have a much better understanding of what breeders go thru now .
So i would like to ask . 1- how low would the price of enter level snakes ( macs,stimes, ect ect ) have to be before you would not breed them next year . 2- you would decide to stop breeding them all together and sell off your breeding stock to concentrate on on other snakes in your collection .

I think the hobbyist breeder can sustain a much lower price than the commercial breeders who have rates and labour to pay for. For me whatever I make from reptiles only has to really cover electricity, food, and any new equipment costs. and lets face it its my hobby of choice, it doesnt have to make a profit. None of my other hobbies ever did.

 

[Ophidiophobe]

Killing snakes that you bred because you can't make a profit from them is wrong. Didn't anyone learn anything at preschool?

 

[Waterrat]

Many people seem to be uncomfortable with the "money making" component in this hobby, many would like to see reptiles bought and sold for a minimal price, the less the better.
I might have mentioned somewhere earlier that one of the reasons for the downturn in reptile trading is the fact that people no longer consider reptiles as wise investment and as a result, we have lost an entire group, very specific group of buyers - the investors. Whatever you opinion on this may be, don't forget that historically, every economy slump has been rescued by investors, not by the poor people. The raise from a slump is triggered by "investor's confidence". We can call this reptile keeping hobby "hobby" as much as we like but in reality, it would die without money changing hands. Think about the peripheral businesses that manufacture enclosures, heating products, rodent breeders, reptile treansport, etc., etc. They are in it for the money and their business are directly relying on sales and purchases of reptiles.
It was fine in the old days when we used to swap animals or give them away to friends but we also had to build our own cages, be electricians, bred our own foods, etc..

 

[Wild~Touch]

It was fine in the old days when we used to swap animals or give them away to friends but we also had to build our own cages, be electricians, bred our own foods, etc..

Still do

 

[Ramsayi]

What has Naive got to do with my opinion?
Im not saying it isnt happening,. but does that make it ok does it?

If you cant keep hold of your animals until they are sold or given away the DONT BREED THEM! you cant tell me people practising this are in it for the love of it,. .. Bull crap!

I have no idea how many Womas were frozen last year,. all I know is none of them were mine.

Trouble is some people are breeding stuff in numbers that are way too large.A couple of hundred coastals for example.

Mass production is something that I have never been comfortable with and never will be.I usually only cycle our breeders every second season rather than treat them like battery hens.

I rested a lot of stuff this last season,bredli for example as there are far too many about and I didn't want to contribute to the problem.Selling animals so cheap that they become disposable pets is by far and away a major problem.

 

[bluey66]

wow there are some naive people here.

How many womas do you think were frozen last season?

Whats naive got to do with this thread or me, and whats happend to the good old days before 1995 and beyond, when people had a love and passion of keeping and breeding Australian Reptile's, that did not just want to keep Reptile's for profit or money making or design snakes by inter or cross-breeding, who were also willing to share their knowledge in keeping and breeding rather than protect their own interest.

l myself can remember the good days way back in the 80's and early 90's, where everyone had a love and passion of keeping and breeding Australian Reptile's, the prices were nowhere near has high has they have been for the last 10 years, and if l ever needed help or advice on sexing-breeding-husbandry they were more willing to help me or share their very own knowledge that they themselfs had learn't over the years.

 

[yommy]

Great thread . have a much better understanding of what breeders go thru now .
So i would like to ask . 1- how low would the price of enter level snakes ( macs,stimes, ect ect ) have to be before you would not breed them next year . 2- you would decide to stop breeding them all together and sell off your breeding stock to concentrate on on other snakes in your collection .

In relation to Number two.

years and years ago i started out with coastals and childreni (the bread and butter snakes) as i like to term them. From these humble animals i have build a small but quality collection of animals desireable to me.

I still have many childreni but as you said after next season i have lines i wish to develop from my top end animals. As i have previously mentioned my numbers are limited by the wife which in hindsight isn't a bad thing (though i would never tell her that ) So to increase the lines of interest, something has to go, so unfortuneatly it will be the childreni but i will have one more season with them as i enjoy raising the hatchies.....

Everyones motivation for breeding will be different but i look at it that if i a doing all the correct husbandary and my animals are happy they will breed and like ramsayi said rotating and bi-annual breeding is a great idea for your animals well being................

 

[Addam]

What has Naive got to do with my opinion?
Im not saying it isnt happening,. but does that make it ok does it?

If you cant keep hold of your animals until they are sold or given away the DONT BREED THEM! you cant tell me people practising this are in it for the love of it,. .. Bull crap!

I have no idea how many Womas were frozen last year,. all I know is none of them were mine.

well said Gecko, my friend has about 25 snakes at the moment where as he only wants about 6, the rest are hatchlings he has to keep as he hasn't sold them from this season. he dosent want to keep them but he has to. he isnt frezzing his when he gets stuck with them.

 

[CodeRed]

What has Naive got to do with my opinion?
Im not saying it isnt happening,. but does that make it ok does it?

If you cant keep hold of your animals until they are sold or given away the DONT BREED THEM! you cant tell me people practising this are in it for the love of it,. .. Bull crap!

I have no idea how many Womas were frozen last year,. all I know is none of them were mine.

Hey no point getting mad at me, I am just the messenger. None of my reptiles will ever need to get frozen as I only breed a few clutches per season and none of them are womas

Its the bigger operations that breed 100's of clutches per year. They cant just give away 100 or 200 unsold snakes now can they. This season probably caught a lot of them off guard as they have been ramping up over the past couple of seasons in anticipation of market growth. They weren't to find out that the market had slumped until their snakes and lizards had hatched and they tried to sell them. If they dont learn and do the same next season then you be very justified in being p-eed off as that would just be blatent disregard for the animals.

 

[Gecko :)]

CodeRed,. Im not getting mad at you,. I am just saying, none of the comments I have made are Naive,. your comments indicated to me that you believe this practice of freezing unsold reptiles is acceptable,. sorry if I misread your opinion, just making mine clear.

I understand noone knew this was going to happen, so maybe ppl will not be in such a rush to breed as many reptiles as they can next season,. but all the same , the ones that have already been bred but cant be sold dont diserve to be iceblocks

 

[Ramsayi]

In relation to Number two.

years and years ago i started out with coastals and childreni (the bread and butter snakes) as i like to term them. From these humble animals i have build a small but quality collection of animals desireable to me.

Indeed.A mac clutch would finance a hatchy pair of bhps etc.Grow them up,bred them and so on.

Seems these days a lot of people want everything right away and since they can't afford it are quite content to try and talk things down.

Trouble seems to me is because too many people are approaching breeding like a business and forgetting it's a hobby or are breeding indiscriminately and flooding the market with low or average type animals.