reptile sale slump???

[CodeRed]

Its all cool

I am not sure what they could do with the excess reptiles besides euthanasing them. Giving them away for free isnt possible for the numbers we are talking about. In any case it would also undermine the market further. Also keeping the excess is ok for the hobbyist, whats an extra few snakes (hope my wife isnt reading this lol), but for a commercial operation this isnt financial sensible. After all they have to make money to stay in the business.

 

[CodeRed]

On a positive note. The drop in prices might reduce the illegal collection of snakes and lizards. All those pygmy stimmies and wheeleri still running around in the bush can breath a sigh of relief.

 

[Hooglabah]

the biggest issue i have is as has been mentioned people who are just getting into the hobby and going straight into breeding i have been keeping for 5 years as of tomorrow and have yet to breed any herp.

why because i have spent the time researching the market the animals gaining as much knowledge as possible writing business plans, perfecting my husbandry techniques and trying to figure out what i believe to be the best actions morally, financially and most importantly for the animals.

for me this slump is an opportunity, i currently dont rely on my animals for anything other than the pleasure i get from my interactions with them and they don't cost more than i can afford in fact i can afford to keep quite a few more without worrying about haveing to "offset" the cost.

so im going to be buying up on the best quality natural examples i can of each species of Morelia (to start with). Then im going to take my time rearing them to the best of my ability to be strong healthy snakes. once they are strong and healthy im just going to sit back and watch the market.

 

[kupper]

Indeed.A mac clutch would finance a hatchy pair of bhps etc.Grow them up,bred them and so on.

Seems these days a lot of people want everything right away and since they can't afford it are quite content to try and talk things down.

Trouble seems to me is because too many people are approaching breeding like a business and forgetting it's a hobby or are breeding indiscriminately and flooding the market with low or average type animals.

making offers and talking people down from there desired prices is something that is prevelant amongst more than just the reptile hobby

the amount of people i get in to work offering my sales people rediculous amounts of money for something that they clearly cannot afford is rediculous


i still stick by the fact that to many people breeding **** animals for the sake of it but still expecting top dollar coupled with both the time of the year and the quantity of animals out there for sale are clearly affecting how quickly things are moving

put something rare or a jag for that matter up for sale and i am more than 100% confident that it will sell over night

 

[kupper]

also its up to breeders to relax on breeding things that are not selling , as rams has indicated

when i worked at Bayfish and Aquarium Industries fish went in cycles from rare to a few around but still pricey to so many out there that they went form a $250 item to a $25 cant get rid of the things to save myself item

but once they got to that $25 section everyone stopped breeding them becasue they where not worth or because there where too many , give it three years for the stock to dissapear and then the species becomes a $250 item again and so the cycle continues

reptiles although a differant kettle of fish has the same sort of smell to it , how many of you in VIC remember Land Mullets being everywhere early 2001-2002 started at 500 a peice then went to 100 a peice now there is none around

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

In regards to alot of comments referring to not going down the morph line, sorry but its too late. There is alot of evidence to suggest that the majority of keepers want bright, colourful or unusual looking animals (morphs). The problem lies that most of us keepers already have the bright and colourful wild type specimens. So whats next, what new bright colourful reptile can we buy next? The answer: MORPHS.

Just look at the classifieds, ad after ad of beautiful Jungles, Chondros, Bhps and the like that are not selling.

I'll give you an example of my situation, I have been trying to sell wild type BHP'S and Jungles, to date I have sold maybe 10% of my offspring for a fraction of what they were were worth 1-2 years ago. I am also selling RPM's and to date have sold 95% of them at rates Chondros were worth 3 years ago.

Some may like it, some may hate it, but extaordinary looking reptiles are going to far more popular with most keepers, they will move in quick time for good value. The majority of standard wild type animals may aswell be left to rest from breeding until the whole morph popularity dies down in 5 - 10 years time.

 

[Waterrat]

To many, especially newbies, breeding is a measure of success. I don't see it that way. Long-term keeping, learning from observations that leads to a personal development is the key to success. If you apply for a job as a reptile keeper, the number of bred species on you CV is not going to be nowhere near as impressive as your in-depth knowledge about the species. Reproductive biology of nearly all Australian pythons has been described and published several time over and the likelihood of discovering something new is slim. There are aspects of reptile keeping well beyond breeding.

 

[Ophidiophobe]

Time to band together those interested in maintaining Australian snakes instead of Norweigian imports (reduced vigour, sorry, pattern Morelia). Glad I am not in this game for the money, but rather for my passion for keeping naturally interesting snakes. Note the word "naturally". At least the snakes I like will be getting cheaper, according to the economic forecasts of this thread.

 

[Hooglabah]

i remeber that another good example atm are cardinal tetras as soon as the trick to breeding them in captivity was figured out they were the same price as neons and now they are back to 6.50 a fish cuz nobody is breeding them.

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

So as said time and time again. Is it simply supply and demand that is causing this slump?

IMO: The current demand for standard wild type reptiles is low, while the supply of standard wild type reptiles is high. Therefore pushing asking prices down until the supply is reduced to an acceptable level.

Do most people out there believe this is the current situation?

 

[GeckoJosh]

The problem is that every 2nd person who gets into this hobby has a go at breeding, which wouldnt be a bad thing if all herps laid 2 egg clutches

 

[kupper]

So as said time and time again. Is it simply supply and demand that is causing this slump?

IMO: The current demand for standard wild type reptiles is low, while the supply of standard wild type reptiles is high. Therefore pushing asking prices down until the supply is reduced to an acceptable level.

Do most people out there believe this is the current situation?

agreed

 

[it_slithers]

The problem is that every 2nd person who gets into this hobby has a go at breeding, which wouldnt be a bad thing if all herps laid 2 egg clutches

Do you breed gekoman???
If all herps laid only two clutches, then people would only just buy more to have more clutches lol.

I find it funny how many people say to many people breed, yet you can bet that same person isnt going to stop breeding!

And agreed BARRAMUNDI its supply and demand, simple!

 

[longqi]

This is the best possible result for the reptiles
Up until now too many snakes were kept locked away in a cage with big signs saying
"Do Not Touch My Valuable Specimen"
Now those same snakes have dropped to realistic prices they can become pets rather than the snake in the cage
GTPs for $10,000 was a complete joke and the same goes for BHPs and Womas at $1000
Anywhere overseas a snake would have to be exceptional to get close to those prices
There are very very few breeders in Aus who produce exceptional snakes
Those that do will still command high prices
But the majority of snakes are now starting to come down to reasonable levels more in line with their actual value

 

[zobo]

things will pick up as too many are panicking during the hard times and flogging off animals in 'fire' sales, but everything will settle after a while and the old 'supply and demand' will pick up again in a few years when no one is breeding and everyone is getting back into reptiles.

Th GFC has impacted as many herpers are cashed up bogans (yes that is the proper PR term! LOL) and they were hit hardest and disposable income is tighter, but when they next housing/mining boom kicks in (already in Qld) things will pick up.

I only keep unusual animals and so far no probs with sales

j

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

Further evidence to support the fact that reptile keeping industry is heading towards morphs. People cant sell standard Coastals, yet Zobo can just about name his price and still move super stripe Coastals.

 

[Waterrat]

There are very very few breeders in Aus who produce exceptional snakes
Those that do will still command high prices

Just as a matter of interest, what are "exceptional snakes"?
Exceptionally unusual (morphs), exceptionally robust, healthy from strong lines or exceptionally hard to get species / morphs?
I am curious because I would like to know if I fall into that category and if not, what should I do to join this exceptional group in the future.:lol:

 

[montay]

Just as a matter of interest, what are "exceptional snakes"?
Exceptionally unusual (morphs), exceptionally robust, healthy from strong lines or exceptionally hard to get species / morphs?
I am curious because I would like to know if I fall into that category and if not, what should I do to join this exceptional group in the future.:lol:

It's puzzling, isn't it??
I have, just metres from me as I type this, two 'exceptional' little woma pythons watching me with their funny little black clown eyes. I think their something special.
A few meters from them, I have a 'common' variety of coastal carpet python. She weighs in at around 5 kg, and is around 8 foot long. She is in pristine health, has a wonderful temperament.
Now, let me ask you all: of these pythons, which one would draw the most 'oohs' and 'ahhs' - no prizes for guessing!
It makes one re-define just what 'exceptional' means ... and yes, 'waterrat', you do belong in the exceptional group with your green darlings!

 

[GeckoJosh]

Do you breed gekoman???
If all herps laid only two clutches, then people would only just buy more to have more clutches lol.

I find it funny how many people say to many people breed, yet you can bet that same person isnt going to stop breeding!

And agreed BARRAMUNDI its supply and demand, simple!

yes i breed, but only to swap, my geckos lay 2 eggs at a time so there isnt a huge amount of profit no matter how many i buy and the more breeders i buy the more work thats involved, those hours would be more profitable working at McDonalds

 

[Southside Morelia]

Trouble seems to me is because too many people are approaching breeding like a business and forgetting it's a hobby or are breeding indiscriminately and flooding the market with low or average type animals.

BINGO...its the old $$$$$ sign for some and NOT the enjoyment of the hobby.
Although I do I know many who earn a living off breeding, but approach the Business side of the hobby as that, a Business and not like some who as mentioned, "flood" the market with low to average animals that unfortunately, brings the market price down for the people who have invested in the hobby for many years. JMO Some may say this is a good thing......but all these average animals sold, subsequently makes the owner think twice after seeing better animals available afterwads....then what happens to the average animals??? Now that's another debate!