Striped Diamond holdbacks

[BROWNS]

Yes well there you go,seems a bit sus to me that's for sure.Don't think i'd be trusting this breeder juding on those comments from Bob,sorry but that just goes to show how much bull**** some people will tell to sell their animals,not right at all imo!!!

 

[Retic]

I'm not quite sure I understand that, from what I understand the photo posted wasn't one of the parents from last season but is a gravid female he as this season. It certainly isn't the snake I saw last season. The fact that he had an intergrade means nothing, that is like saying anyone who has both intergrades and Diamonds can not be trusted.

 

[cockney red]

Ka-Boom 4 sure. Tip of the Iceberg!!!!!:|

 

[BROWNS]

As far as i was aware going on what's been written the pics posted were the parents of the animals in question,if not why were they even posted?

The intergrade being kept means nothing,i've had both at one time,doesn't mean i bred them together either so that means nothing however the mother being a completely different snake yet the pics posted saying they are the parents certainly is confusing,would be nice to see it cleared up if possible??

 

[Retic]

The photo wasn't posted by the breeder, Jonno posted the photo of the female and maybe he got it confused with the gravid one from this season, I have no idea really but you are condemning the breeder because of something out of his control.

 

[Ramsayi]

Bob certainly cleared up something that even blind Freddy could see from the pics posted.I guess now someone will pop up and try and belittle his experience.

 

[BROWNS]

The photo wasn't posted by the breeder, Jonno posted the photo of the female and maybe he got it confused with the gravid one from this season, I have no idea really but you are condemning the breeder because of something out of his control.

So is the gravid one from this season the mother of the animals in question?If so has it bred before producing these odd offspring?

Sorry no disrespect meant to the breeder,it just reads the wrong way suggesting that thepics posted are of the parents,otherwise what is the point of posting them,this would be a good reason to clear this up so it doesn't come back on the breeder i would think??

 

[MrBredli]

The fact that he had an intergrade means nothing, that is like saying anyone who has both intergrades and Diamonds can not be trusted.

Not exactly, but it does raise a lot of eyebrows when the person is selling 'pure Diamonds' that look a hell of a lot like intergrades.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

I do understand the uncertainty surrounding these animals, especially considering they resemble a colouration common in a locality of Morelia few hundred kilometres away. But at the end of the day, those of us who know Dan, know that he wouldn't lie, and has no reason to lie. He didn't attach an artificially high price tag to his animals, the vast majority went to mates, and if they were Intergrades, they would have gone just ask quick. But, at the end of the day, they have originated from PURE Diamond Pythons.

The photo of the female is one that is presently gravid to the bright yellow male ("The most brilliant Diamond I have ever seen" - John Weigel). I am unsure of whether it was the girl used last year, and Dan isn't exactly in a position at the moment to be answering such questions.

What about Snake Ranch's or Matt's line of striped Diamonds? They are far more striped than Dans, yet barely rate a mention? They are from different line/s, also, so it shows this isn't a once off thing?

 

[NickM]

all this talk maade me want to post a pic of one of my stiped Bredli hatchlings from this year.

Nick

 

[Retic]

That's a spectacular Bredli Nick.

 

[Jungleland]

NickM (qoute)all this talk maade me want to post a pic of one of my stiped Bredli hatchlings from this year.

Nick

That's not a bredli, bredli's don't have stripe

Regardless very nice animal for sureJK

Thanks for posting!

Joel

 

[Retic]

Don't start them off again Joel :lol:

 

[Jungleland]

Don't start them off again Joel :lol:

awwwww Why can't I have some fun????:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Gawd... from one site to another... You can lead a horse to water, but...

Jonno, "intergrades" occur within 60-100km from Gosford, and "intergrade" looking pythons probably closer than that, so I don't know where you get the "hundreds of kilometres" notion of separation... Of course, within that 50-100km overlap you will get influences of both. It just depends what you want to call them.

Scientifically, there will be, somewhere, a recognized DESCRIPTION of what defines a diamond python, and THIS IS INDEPENDENT OF WHATEVER HERP HOBBYISTS WANT TO BELIEVE... Those snakes of boas exhibit no characteristics of diamond pythons at all. I can't be bothered with this any more, but someone should contact the reptile man at the Australian Museum, ask which taxonomist's description they currently recognise (this changes as species are revised) and ask for the scientific description they currently accept as valid. Included in this description will be references to colour and pattern, with an indication of what regarded as unique to diamond pythons.

That is where the discussion should end. If you dispute the fact of that description, then you should do a crash course in taxonomy and revise the Morelia spilota ssp. yourself.

Jamie.

 

[flavirufus]

Hi Jamie,

"intergrades" occur within 60-100km from Gosford, and "intergrade" looking pythons probably closer than that, so I don't know where you get the "hundreds of kilometres" notion of separation... Of course, within that 50-100km overlap you will get influences of both.

You've given an indication of where 'integrade influence' fades out in the phenotype, but do you know where it ceases to be present in the genotype, if at all?

Scientifically, there will be, somewhere, a recognized DESCRIPTION of what defines a diamond python... but someone should contact the reptile man at the Australian Museum, ask which taxonomist's description they currently recognise (this changes as species are revised) and ask for the scientific description they currently accept as valid. Included in this description will be references to colour and pattern, with an indication of what regarded as unique to diamond pythons.

Unfortunately for this discussion, taxonomists don't deal with morphs. e.g. you won't find a taxonomic description for an olive python anywhere that describes them as whitish snakes, yet whitish olives exist. Besides, morphological descriptions (and even genotypic descriptions) for sub-species of reptiles are flimsy at best and would contribute little to this sort of discussion.

Matt

 

[pugsly]

"I can't be bothered with this any more"

I hear ya sister...

 

[BROWNS]

Gawd... from one site to another... You can lead a horse to water, but...

Jonno, "intergrades" occur within 60-100km from Gosford, and "intergrade" looking pythons probably closer than that, so I don't know where you get the "hundreds of kilometres" notion of separation... Of course, within that 50-100km overlap you will get influences of both. It just depends what you want to call them.

Scientifically, there will be, somewhere, a recognized DESCRIPTION of what defines a diamond python, and THIS IS INDEPENDENT OF WHATEVER HERP HOBBYISTS WANT TO BELIEVE... Those snakes of boas exhibit no characteristics of diamond pythons at all. I can't be bothered with this any more, but someone should contact the reptile man at the Australian Museum, ask which taxonomist's description they currently recognise (this changes as species are revised) and ask for the scientific description they currently accept as valid. Included in this description will be references to colour and pattern, with an indication of what regarded as unique to diamond pythons.

That is where the discussion should end. If you dispute the fact of that description, then you should do a crash course in taxonomy and revise the Morelia spilota ssp. yourself.

Jamie.

Just replying to your second paragraph regarding the distance of intergrades from Gosford i find it very hard to believe with what you have said that nobody has ever seen an odd ball diamond in the Gosford area,not one???

Come on pugs why stop now,i just found my billy and it's getting much more interesting dude:lol:

 

[bigguy]

Browns, the intergrade zone appears to end basically along a line stretching from Barrington/Glouster through to Karuah and then to Port Stephens. The majority of specimens found from these areas show small amounts of intergrade in them. However, some are seen which look close to pure.But below this line you only see pure Diamonds showing no signs of Carpet influence.

As I state previously, as far as I am aware NO ONE has seen any oddball speciemens in the Gosford area, or for that matter anywhewre in southern NSW.

As for the snakeranch line, I can remember that add for that snake and it was a intergrade from up the coast. John asked me about it prior to him purchasing it. As for Matts,which are absolutly gorgous, unless he collected them himself from known Diamond areas he can not be sure whats behind his lines.

 

[pugsly]

Spot on Bigguy..

Port Stephens area has a heap of intergrade in them in my opinion, well at least the ones I have photographed from there all displayed it.

As for snake ranch's 'striped diamond'. Did anyone actually believe it was pure? Come on...

Here is the facts:

1. In .... years, after ........ people breeding Diamonds, NOT ONE came up with stripes or anything like it.
2. In all the literature, although they describe some variation, they all indicate 'diamond shape rosettes' NOT STRIPES
3. All of a sudden, 'Wild caught Gosfords' turn up... Bob explained he has lived there for .. years and not one he had seen showed ANY stripes.
4. Intergrades are KNOWN to have huge variation, and very commonly STRIPES.

Make up your own minds.. But there are some very gulible people out there.. I don't care where they said the parents or grandparents originated quite frankly. I have heard that much B.S in this hobby from so many people that nothing surprises me anymore..

Facts are facts.