Will you be Crossing your subspecies??

[NCHERPS]

In light of the recent thread, I thought it would be interesting to do a poll and get a snap shot of members views on how they feel about crossing subspecies today or in the near future.

Please be honest in your answers when polling.

Cheers Neil

 

[hornet]

If i saw a very interesting one i might be temped to keep them but would never breed them myself. I have no problem with it as long as it is done responsibly and the young are sold as what they are.

 

[caustichumor]

I have seen some very nice crossbred pythons, However I would never keep one, I think that there are enough people mixing subspecies "by accident". I am happy enough watching the freakshow on US Hybrid sites....

 

[Nephrurus]

I've not seen any "very nice" crossbreeds. What some people are doing with "pure" lines is amazing. Cross breeding is a cop out. Just because you can't get decent animals to breed from or are too lazy to put in the leg (or phone) work to find exactly what they want doesn't mean you have to breed whatever motley assortment of nothing animals you've got in your ho-hum collection.

That ought to get things fired up a bit.



-H

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

I was given this x bred snake ( m.d and brissie and darwin who knows what else) last year because the owner could not get it to eat..
I have no intentions to breed from it and i wont be selling it as it seems to have a great disposition and i do want to see what it looks like as it matures.
Also , by keeping it in my own collection i am ensuring it wont be bred with anything else.
The breeder of this particular snake is a member of this site. No so much a x breed but an assortment of coastals from different areas...Does this count?

 

[caustichumor]

Well put Nephrurus, I should have termed it "different looking"in place of nice. And I agree wholeheartedly with your copout statement,
The line bred animals available these days are incredible, and the amount of time that went into producing some of these genetic variables is nearing half a lifetime. It's good that there aren't too many votes at the top of the poll....

 

[slacker]

I have no intention of doing so at this point in time, but I'd be surprised if it didn't become more widespread and accepted in the future. How far into the future, I wouldn't guess, but I would be surprised if it never happens.

At the moment everyone seems to be creaming their pants over albinos and other morphs, but what will happen when these become more commonplace? I suspect people will begin experimenting more and more over here to see what aesthetically pleasing mutts they can produce.

I also believe that the anti-hybridization movement here is based more on pack-mentality than any real reasons. It's almost social-conditioning. Most of the people here who are pro-hybridization will sit quietly on the sidelines instead of voicing their opinion, because they will undoubtedly get slammed by the masses, so you're always going to hear more from the naysayers and that in turn encourages more people entering the hobby to take a dim view on such things.

Personally, I've been somewhat torn on this subject. I don't think hybridization is inherently bad. What concerns me is that if it does become more widespread and commonplace, more and more mutts will be passed off as pure this or that, which is a scary thought. If people were always honest (and well-informed) about what they sold/traded to others, that would be a non-issue and I personally wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[BT]

well, I will never do it and never even own one, there are plenty of great looking snakes out their when they are pure, no need to cross which just ends up in butt ugly snakes imo

 

[Southside Morelia]

Honestly that's a stunner ssssnakeman.
My hat's off to you to be honest about what you keep and to quote you "Also , by keeping it in my own collection i am ensuring it wont be bred with anything else."Your a trooper and doing a great justice to the community! "i do want to see what it looks like as it matures." unquote. The old "research" excuse, just like the Japanese who slaughter Minki whales for research purposes! LOL
Mate, not having a go, atleast you have the balls to post a pic of a so called X, well done...
But the excuses/disclaimer LMAO...now that ruined it...lol
Anyway, that's a good looking animal...mongrel as some people may call it!
Good Luck and keep us posted, I for one won't flame you, I too would like to see how it progresses.!

I was given this x bred snake ( m.d and brissie and darwin who knows what else) last year because the owner could not get it to eat..
I have no intentions to breed from it and i wont be selling it as it seems to have a great disposition and i do want to see what it looks like as it matures.
Also , by keeping it in my own collection i am ensuring it wont be bred with anything else.
The breeder of this particular snake is a member of this site. No so much a x breed but an assortment of coastals from different areas...Does this count?

 

[RedEyeGirl]

true i would keep one just to save it from being bred again and again and again

 

[Ramsayi]

What about everyone classes all Morelia as the same thing and throws everything together?We could then just have one type of Morelia maybe we could call it Morelia.s.mutt.

At least that way everyone would know what they actually have in their collections and there would be no need to keep too many like we currently do if we want all the different types currently on offer.NPWS paperwork would be a breeze as well just one species code.

Another thing that amuses me no end is that some of the more well known breeders (you know who you are and others have taken note) are crossing stuff but are doing it quietly,even going as far as telling potential buyers to "keep it to yourself" as to where it came from.Now if they feel the need to cross things and in their own eyes see nothing wrong with it then why be so secretive about it? Have the balls to at least stand by the decision you made!

 

[Bung-Eye]

nah, purity for me

 

[smacdonald]

If you knowingly cross your subspecies in Queensland you are technically committing an offence under the Nature Conservation Act.

The holder must not breed a mutation or hybrid of a restricted bird or of any species of reptile or amphibian.

The above quote refers to the holder of a recreational wildlife licence. I don't know if it applies to holders of commercial, exhibitors and demonstrators licences. The Act doesn't provide a definition of 'hybrid', so you'd have to assume they're using the term with its general definition: crossing reptiles of different taxa.

I don't know of any cases where people have been prosecuted for crossing subspecies. I've also never spoken to anyone in the EPA about this, so they may have a different view than the one I've provided.

I've also never heard of anyone being prosecuted for breeding albinos (which, according to the quote above, is also against the rules).

Has anyone ever had the EPA clarify any of this?

Stewart

 

[slacker]

Yeah, Stewart, I remember reading that a while back and wondering exactly how they defined "hybrid."

Out of curiosity, what are the laws governing this (or not) in other states?

 

[Tatelina]

I've not seen any "very nice" crossbreeds. What some people are doing with "pure" lines is amazing. Cross breeding is a cop out. Just because you can't get decent animals to breed from or are too lazy to put in the leg (or phone) work to find exactly what they want doesn't mean you have to breed whatever motley assortment of nothing animals you've got in your ho-hum collection.

*cheers*
Hooray! The best post I've read all day!

 

[Kersten]

In light of the recent thread, I thought it would be interesting to do a poll and get a snap shot of members views on how they feel about crossing subspecies today or in the near future.

Please be honest in your answers when polling.

Cheers Neil

I have no interest in knowingly crossing subspecies.

 

[WombleHerp]

i would DEFINATELY not breed them, i prefer the 'classic' i think PURE blood is better then a hybrid.
however,
if the specimen was a really good looking snake, whether interesting, pretty, different, etc i would keep it. but NOT breed it.

thats my say

Nat

 

[ytamarin]

Definitely not.
In fact, I prefer the look of snakes as they appear in the wild - their natural colours and patterns - rather than anything special or out of the ordinary.
I personally would never purchase a python that had an appearance that I thought would be rare to find in the wild.

 

[cockney red]

More or less sums me up.

Definitely not.
In fact, I prefer the look of snakes as they appear in the wild - their natural colours and patterns - rather than anything special or out of the ordinary.
I personally would never purchase a python that had an appearance that I thought would be rare to find in the wild.

 

[smacdonald]

For the record, I don't give a rat's if people breed hybrids (at any taxonomical level). The animals are in captivity and, unless the health and well-being of the animal is compromised, I don't see why it matters. Sure, people can then start selling hybrid animals as pure-bred ones, but there's nothing stopping them from doing that now.

I also think that crossing subspecies is very similar to crossing a coastal carpet from north Queensland with a coastal carpet from south Queensland. You can legally do that because they're on paper as the same species, but the event would never occur in the wild. So what's the difference between crossing a diamond python with a coastal carpet? That's not a rhetorical question - I'm happy for an anti-hybrid person to enlighten me.

While we're here, can anyone actually offer a definition of 'subspecies'? (Again, that's not a rhetorical.)

And, also for the record, I have no interest in knowingly breeding hybrids.

Stewart