Some Morelia's

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

That quote from Ross is more than twenty years old. Before any morphs and mutations were even bred with any regularity. People tend to forget that most Australian pythons were being bred by foreigners long before it became common place in Australia. I would love to know if Ross has since had a change of heart. Many of the best foreign keepers in the world has shifted from breeding locality animals to designer animals. To name the barkers as an example. Morelias are a good complex to work with as there are so many combinations? And as krefft asked before, I would also like to know how all you hybrid haters know that 95% of a mongrel clutch would look like abominations?

 

[diamondgeeza]

This super zebra belonging to Mr Paul Harris looks interesting as regards to future breeding projects....

..and for all you purists it is allegedly 100% jungle

 

[Khagan]

This super zebra belonging to Mr Paul Harris looks interesting as regards to future breeding projects....

..and for all you purists it is allegedly 100% jungle

Looks different... Not sure it's on the level of some of the previous animals posted though, but as you say could be interesting breeding projects with other traits... Say like albino .

 

[ihaveherps]

Many of the best foreign keepers in the world has shifted from breeding locality animals to designer animals. To name the barkers as an example.

Huh? A while back the barkers did move out of morelia as far as I am aware, yes, they did move into morphs, but I have no idea where your getting this bit about moving away from breeding locality stock. They have actually spent a few yrs on a project, originally derived from wild caugth animals, T+ summatran short tail pythons, and if you read the blog with the advertised animals, they clearly state that they have only used orange headed animals from within the population as other blood in the project.... sounds strangely like locale breeding to me.

This "the big international breeders" crap is getting old.... its a market that is pretty much dominated by Royals, and corns, amazingly sub-specific animals. Sure they are morph driven, though were never a community carved out on the backs of millions of designer hybrids..... no, it was the humble sub-specific morph. Hybrid animals wont be the future here, and were never the big tickets on the international scene.... sure there are the few novilties, the "bateaters", the "walls", and stuff, but on the whole, its mainly the Morelia scene that is the mongrel-makers playground, the ugly little sister to the wider herp community. This lets follow their lead, is just sheepish, un-original and tired. If hybrids were the almighty future then why, as a percentage, would sub-specific morphs dominate the international scene, hell, if you dont allow decimal places, im not sure that sub-specific crosses would even make it into the breakdown... Im just baffled as to why the trend you follow, as "the guiding light into the amateur herpetological future in this country", is such an insignificant blip on the world herpetology scene. If you had half a brain, you would have adopted the sub-specific morph idea from the balls and corns, they were the real giant leaps in the scene.

Meh... Im over this.... no matter how you slice it, hybrids are a short-cut to a far from foolproof result, biggest thing to be achieved is maybe use a known trait such as albinism and create a hybrid albino..... WOOHOO... let me just collect myself.... the anticipation that this marvellous hybrid albino animal has stirred up inside, almost made me wee wee in my pants....

 

[Retic]

Oldbeard, yes I am very aware of the REAL situation overseas as opposed to the one that exists in the minds of some.

That Super Tiger is a magnificent animal, like the absolute best Hypo times 2.

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Ash,
Thats a Super Zebra ,
this morph is co dom like jags but i doubt that co dom morphs in carpets are from our natural native genetics .
Otherwise we would have Co Dom morphs in the wild ???? But we dont ?
We do have albinos ,,stripes ,,and hypos,, hypers etc etc etc
These are recessive traits and australia is the land of recessive reptile traits .

Also I find it a bit odd that ball pythons have Co Dom morphs found in the wild from there native origins ,
these rare but wild collected Co dom morphs started the whole Ball Python morph craze .

But in oz there are no proven Co Dom wild type natural morphs here .

bit strange if you ask me

.

 

[Oldbeard]

Not sure if you can see the price tag in the photo but it was going for $6000.00US last year at an expo.Go to the top of the class, cordylus. It is blatantly obvious that it is a carpondro, just like the snake on the very first page of this thread is blatantly obviously a jag. How would everyone feel if i was to smuggle this into the country and claim it to be an Australian line that I bred here myself.
Thats what I thought this argument was about. I cant believe how this thread has gone into a hybridisation argument when you can hybridise till you are blue in the face with pure australian animals and not come up with that jag at the start of this thread.
Just like you cannot come up with the morphs in the gtps in the country now unless you are using stock from overseas. everyone still wants them, just like alot of people want jags.
Just be honest and say hey i have some jags for sale. dont know where they came from i picked them up at mcdonalds.

 

[Retic]

Sorry yes Zebra, come on it was 7.00am when I posted that :lol:

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

How sure are you of your facts ihaveherps? And always remember, its just your opinion, as always! Have you ever heard of jungle corns? Maybe you should see how big this market is. The problem with your theory is that there are thousands of more species to choose from overseas. The problem in Aussie is that you are strapped for choice, that's why there is such a demand for exotics. Fortunately carpet pythons show a lot of variation in pattern and colour. And this is what appeals to the hybrid breeder. The chance to create something new and intresting. You don't have to share their opinion, but you sure as hell won't change it.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Now that you mention it jungle freak, interesting thought.

 

[ihaveherps]

Cordylus, I am well aware that I wont change anything in regards to the battle hardened hybridisers, just like they wont sway my views. I contributed to this thread, at first because Qldmorelias is an alias, too much of a cat to try and put a Jag past us as a hybrid under the normal username, and only later in the piece did I join the debate. This time round in the age old debate, i have tried to scale back in the personal opinion stakes (sure i slip the boot in occasionally), instead focussing on the hybridisers rhetoric. I am inputting for those members who think that aps is the entire global herp community, they do exist, likewise those who dont look much outside Australian species even on the global scale. These sorts of debates do have the effect of polarising some of those members who were previously undecided, alot of the time, it seems mis-information and shallow arguements are what swings them. My aim is to dispell some of the more feeble pro-hybrid rhetoric, at least arming those without the information some glimpses of the bigger picture behind some of the statements.

I know I will never sway the battle hardened hybridisers, thats not my goal.... I involved myself so that others arent sold by a sales pitch, without having a credible alternative.

 

[QldMorelias]

Not sure if you can see the price tag in the photo but it was going for $6000.00US last year at an expo.Go to the top of the class, cordylus. It is blatantly obvious that it is a carpondro, just like the snake on the very first page of this thread is blatantly obviously a jag. How would everyone feel if i was to smuggle this into the country and claim it to be an Australian line that I bred here myself.


If you claimed that it was an Australian line that you bred here yourself I'd think "Oh so Oldbeard is one of the people who are breeding Carpondro's in Australia, I wonder if he's also breeding them with Roughies, there seem to be a few people doing that."

Just for the record I'm not keen on crossing species,and wouldn't do it though each to their own.

 

[FAY]

.

This hobby is a joke sometimes with all the lying backstabbing petty little wanabes around. It really is a messy hobby with jealously running rife.

.

You will find a few in every hobby........the big motivator being jealousy........they hate to think that someone is more popular, has better animals, maybe making a dollar more than they are and usually accuse that person of being dodgy (or a crook) when they are the ones that are.......sad really.

 

[scorps]

You will find a few in every hobby........the big motivator being jealousy........they hate to think that someone is more popular, has better animals, maybe making a dollar more than they are and usually accuse that person of being dodgy (or a crook) when they are the ones that are.......sad really.

Yeah but in true blues case its most people being jelouse of his collection lol

 

[indicus]

I to would be inclined to keep a bag upon my head and hide; in shame...'old school'..I'd prefer 'old fool'.... rhymes
It's interesting that you; among others; often resort to the use of fortune tellers;
and their abilities to foresee the future with the possibilities of captive release...
I hope your right in foresight; however if and whenever the need arise;
would it be not be beneficial to try and maintain pure blood lines within the hobby to the best of our ability?
Are we as an Australian community of reptile enthusiasts to show concern and forward thinking;
and attempt to grasp an understanding of our own locality morelia morphs before treading where others have done before?
As you hide behind your mask; ask yourself whether you have a sound knowledge of the complexities associated with breeding hybrids;
and their future impact on the hobby?...do you even care?...have you thought it through?
Will you; and others who share your view; claim any responsibility for your actions when the hobby is riddled with hybrid morelia forms;
that only confuse the amateur; resembling nothing more then two animals that share traits seen to occur naturally; in both locality forms?
'Scare- mongering'... I think not.

We have all seen that captive breeding/propagation has proven useful towards the restocking and replenishing of all forms of flora and fauna;
for many years both in Australia and overseas ....
Will the need to do so ever happen with our various locality forms morelia? maybe not....however;
a simple change in legislation or powers to be; possible is it not?
Disease's such as OMPV; habitat destruction etc; are a very real issue's when considering the impact on locality forms...
The reality is; the need to do so may very well arise; as I'm sure you'd agree?
Having said that; I'm sure you'd also realise some of these locality forms already face an uncertain future; as their distribution
is already fragmented; and for the most part are poorly understood...eg names such as 'Cape York' carpet spring to mind.
To take it upon yourself to produce these hybrids/crosses; shows a blatant disregard for our unique fauna; and IMO; to knowingly do so is criminal!!!
It's unbelievable; that those responsible for licensing regardless of state; allow those like yourself to carry out such foolish practises blatantly...
One can only hope that those in positions of influence; are to be seen to possess a balanced view; knowledge and skills required;
to allow the industry/hobby as whole; towards taking 'positive' steps with regards the future of reptile keeping within this country; and it's management.
How does the 'slap-stick' creation of hybrids help further the hobby?; or advance our knowledge of Australia herptafauna?
Am I correct in thinking hybridisation is pursued by novices that wish only to line their pockets through random experimentation;
rather then just wanting to create a desirable colour form?....there's no other excuse to do so is there?
I'm sure we all as reptile enthusiasts can appreciate a beautiful colour form regardless of purity; but at what cost?
The introduction of the web for the most part; has allowed hobbyist's to come together to share and trade information freely;
which I believe has helped considerably in our understanding towards breeding the many locality forms available these days...
The last few years has seen many stunning locality forms bred for both colour and pattern; with some surprising results...
What more do you want?...

In relevance to this thread; nice Jag's QM....good job in your sly approach towards introducing them into the Australian reptile scene;
shame where not all easily baffled with BS.....have a nice day

 

[TrueBlue]

Very true Fay, its like being back in primary school, only worse.


I like the way the super zebra is "allegedly" a pure animal. This is the perfect example of a shodow of dought put over pure animals, (if infact it is), in countries that constantly hybridise species/sub-species. I would imagine that a large percentage of pure morelia overseas would also have the same shadow of dought over them. I rest my case.

Oldbeard,-
Thats my main arrgument in this thread, to me the animals first posted are jags, not murryfalls jungles x coatals. As most jags these days are crossed with one form of morelia or another, i spose thats why the hybidising debate erupted.

 

[Retic]

Speak for yourself

Yeah but in true blues case its most people being jelouse of his collection lol

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Pure line breeders also line their pockets! Come on, If your intentions were that noble you would make it affordable for most to be able to keep them. Don't tell me its an art to line breed morelias, they breed without much manipulation. And they breed with anything. If you made it more affordable to buy say black and white jungles, then keepers would not feel the need to experiment. But the market has always been controlled by some of the old timers on this forum. Now their grip on the hobby is slowly loosening on the hobby. Just look at the uproar that happened about gtp prices dropping. Money, money, money! Makes the world go round hey! Let's see the uproar when jags start getting sold for $500 or less. What do you think people will spend their hard earned cash on? I am still going to have a good laugh about this debate in a couple of years time. Ihaveherps: very well posted! I will have a debate with you any day! Why do anti hybrid posters always have to become abusive. (Ihaveherps excluded).

 

[Wild~Touch]

There's a slight possibility that the old timers learnt their *trade* thoroughly from many many years experience

and not from pictures of pretty snakes on the internet.

Never be afraid to take in what the elders of the tribe have to offer

 

[WombleHerp]

DID somebody say HYBRIDS????




Nat x