Some Morelia's

[PhilK]

God this has been going for yonks!

Incidentally, I love QldMorelias new display picture hahaha

 

[draqonfly]

if prices of pure bred lines are much affordable, hell that would be great ! americas snakes are soooooo cheap. why cant we have those prices here?

 

[QldMorelias]

The price of a snake is not determined by how it looks, it's determined by how rare it is. Chondros are now common so their price dropped by 80% in 2 years. it's not that they all became 80% uglier. Roughies were rare so some paid $24,000 a pair, now they are common, and yours for only $3,000

Please don't think that it's easy to produce these animals either. Just reading what went into producing the snake on the front page of the reptiles Australia article is mind boggling. The creation of somthing like that is more advanced than anything being done here.

Locale animals is:
Step 1 Catch 2 animals from the one location
Step 2 Breed them.
Step 3 Repeat step 2

Not too hard really.

 

[caustichumor]

The price of a snake is not determined by how it looks, it's determined by how rare it is. Chondros are now common so their price dropped by 80% in 2 years. it's not that they all became 80% uglier. Roughies were rare so some paid $24,000 a pair, now they are common, and yours for only $3,000

Please don't think that it's easy to produce these animals either. Just reading what went into producing the snake on the front page of the reptiles Australia article is mind boggling. The creation of somthing like that is more advanced than anything being done here.

Locale animals is:
Step 1 Catch 2 animals from the one location
Step 2 Breed them.
Step 3 Repeat step 2

Not too hard really.

Wow, so you actually have to do more then breed two animals together to produce a hybrid? Wow, please let us all know the scientific procedure in place to breed hybrids...

 

[cockney red]

Wow, so you actually have to do more then breed two animals together to produce a hybrid? Wow, please let us all know the scientific procedure in place to breed hybrids...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Retic]

Just 4 more pages for the big 50, come on guys.........oh and girls of course.

 

[QldMorelias]

Oh Caustic,
You took me out of context accidentially. Yes agreed it takes no more skill to put 2 subspecies together than it does locale animals.
The point I was trying to make was not about just putting 2 snakes together, it was line breeding animals on a level that isn't done here. The production of the animals in my Album are the result of highly skilled, dedicated breeders working with animals for multi generations. They haven't come about by pure luck you silly sausage

 

[NickM]

Regarding the super zebra: I was the one who posted the picture originally before it was posted here.

Zebras are pure jungles, there are and no doubt will be more intergrade and hybrid zebras produced but the morph did come from pure cheynei stock originally.

That said they are not locality specific jungles, as there are very few locality jungles in collections outside Australia.

As to the issue of why thee are no co-dom morphs in Australia that someone said a few posts back, the answer is that you do have them of course.

The fact is that there are far more Asutralain snakes prodcued OUTSIDE Australia that there are produced inside. The more that are prodcued the greater the chances of mutations popping up.

The simple fact that our gene pool is limited increases the chance of this happening as we generally have to breed animals that are at least distantly related at best.

Because you guys have a much larger gene pool to draw on the chances of new mutations cropping up , especially recessive ones is much lower.

There are no doubt countless new mutations int he wild carpet population iun Australia, just becasue they have not been found and reproduced does not meant they are not there.

Wasnt it just last year that a new morph of MD carpets was produced in Australia?

Nick

 

[zulu]

re Some

Produce a few good pretty snakes from the crosses and euthanize the rest (all the ugly ones that dont make the front cover) thats what happens,all the crap looking jags dont get shown onley the few good ones.

 

[junglepython2]

Oh Caustic,
You took me out of context accidentially. Yes agreed it takes no more skill to put 2 subspecies together than it does locale animals.
The point I was trying to make was not about just putting 2 snakes together, it was line breeding animals on a level that isn't done here. The production of the animals in my Album are the result of highly skilled, dedicated breeders working with animals for multi generations. They haven't come about by pure luck you silly sausage

Or alternativly taking second rate Jags from o/s smuggling them across, breeding them and then claiming they are the result of all your hard work????

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Nick
I seriously doubt we will have a Co dom mutations spring up here .
But if you say inbreeding courses spontanious mutations to turn up like Co dom traits then with the exception of jags and zebras please inform us of these spontanious mutations you speak of ?,

I would agree that future inbreeding here will produce recessive traits possible unknown to us now .
But ?

Not Co dom traits ,
or we would have already had co dom traits in our wild populations of reptiles ??
also the murry darling morphs produced here are more than likely recessive in the mode of inheritance .

cheers
Roger

 

[QldMorelias]

Zulu,
I really doubt that they will end up in the freezer. This old chesnut get's wheeled out every few pages or so. Why would you stick them in the freezer when you could show pictures of the good looking siblings and at a minimum sell them for $50 / $100. It's still better than nothing, and still better than freezing them. You freezer happy Purists have got to think of something better than that.

junglepython2 my current infraction status prevents me from engaging in silly tit for tat bickering. If you see a guy with a paperbag on his head at the expo come and say hello.

 

[zulu]

re Some

yeh baggy i suppose you could sell all the ugy crosses for fifty or a hundred or use them for BHP food

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Bet you a $1000 that not one of these purists will have the you know what's to confront you at the expo! That's just the power you have when it comes to the internet. Why not just stick a hot warm probe in its reproductive organs. That should stop it from breeding. And why not show all the hatchlings in a clutch of so called pure locale specific animals! By the sounds of it they all are beautiful! Amazing little critters. I wish humans can be as good as so called pure local specific snakes, it would prevent the world from having so many ugly people!

 

[Hetty]

You would lose that bet. People who are passionate about reptiles go to those expos, and would quite happily have a debate or even argument with someone openly hybridising reptiles.

 

[BROWNS]

Just my thoughts on the subject which are that the pics first posted may well be jags and are being made out to be years of hard work of crossbreeding and supposedly making hybrids to try and introduce jags into the hobby.We or most of us know there are jags in the country however there's the problem of legaly introducing them into the hobby so they can be sold otherwise if they can not be brought into the hobby they would be worth jack!!

The first pic in the first post of this thread looks to me like a poor quality BW Jungle and I've seen examples of BW Jungles with much the same patterning that make that animal in the first pic look ugly in comparison,and yest the BW's I've seen have also had practically the exact same head pattern as in the first pic which seems to be a trait many Julatten BW's tend to have ,call them reduced or wierd etc head patterns for jungles as opposed to the classic skull and crossbones normally associated with jungles.So what I'm getting at is that there is no need to cross animals making hybrids to look like the first pic of the animal on the first page as there are PURE BRED animals already being bred here in Australia that look better than any crossbred or hybrid animal does.

The second animal pictured certainly screams jag to me however I have seen lines of Athertons with similar patterning and colour as well as Whitsunday carpets that look very similar.Just take a look at what Jungleland is breeding along with a few others.I myself have seen a Whitsunday carpet that looked very very similar to the second pic with reduced head pattern as well,sorry no pics I could not get close enough to the animal However I do have pics of animals from the Whitsunday area that are very similar to some jags I've seen pics of which I'll find and throw a few pics up.Again there is no need to hybridise animals to try and produce animals that look like this and I highly doubt you would get many animals in a clutch of hybrids that look alike unless there is a genetic trait involved.We do have pure bred animals and wild examples that already look like that without the need to cross breed or hybridise.

The third pic is simply a tri striped jungle which I and I'm sure most of us have seen examples of jungles just the same and are pure bred even right down to the locality just like the first 2 pics previous.I'm sure many people have pics of animals much like this they may want to post up for an example.

The last pic also looks very jag like to me however take a look at many of the animals bred and owned by Jungle Freak"Roger" .He breeds some of the best reduced patterned jungles around and are pure with many pure to locality that look much nicer than the last pic posted of the animal on the first page of this thread.Again another example showing we don't need to cross or hybridise to get the desired look of the animals posted.

Then again that's just an example showing we have pure locality bred both captive and wild type animals that look just as good if not better than the supposed hybrids posted on the first page.If this is someone trying to get jags into the hobby seeing as it's pretty well known there are jags here in Australia brought in or smuggled from overseas just like many of the chondros in the country.The truth will or should show wether these animals are jags or not when they start being sold and someone ends up breeding a pair of these animals ending up with dead leucistics etc.Or when someone breeds one of these animals and a certain percentage produced look just like jags.We have to remember as has been said already that there are usually the best examples of jags we see pics of but for all the stunners bred there are also ugly duclings which we don't see and these will most likely be the animals chosen to get smuggled into Australia.We will also be able to tell if they are jags when some of them,not all,develope neurogical problems which is an affliction suffered by many jags and has been spoken about thoroughly on other forums such as mp.com.

Overall though my opinion for what it's worth is that these are jags other than the striped jungle which I'm assuming a small group of people or some person who are trying to legally bring them into the hobby by saying they are hybrids! If they are hybrids and not jags the variety of offspring from these hybrids will vary so much and you will not consistantly get animals looking like the ones posted and if they are jags it's going to be quite simple to find out.We have so many morphs out there in the wild and captivity which have either never been seen or bred before or are animals ppl own that have certain undiscovered genetic traits and that's with pure animals and with that why the need or want to crossbreed when you can achieve simialr results in most cases better than any hybrids or what they produce.Crossing any morelia with albinos is different again and should remain seperate from the type of supposed hybrids this thread is based on.

Also I thought there were animals with dom or co dom traits such as a few striped lines of coastals and Athertons and I myself produced a full clutch of striped animals from 2 very nice Whitsunday carpets where only one parent was striped and breeding from one of these striped carpets should again produce another clutch of all striped animals proving the trait which would not be recessive but dominant or co dom,I can't remember what the difference is lol

The th

 

[zulu]

re Some

You would lose that bet. People who are passionate about reptiles go to those expos, and would quite happily have a debate or even argument with someone openly hybridising reptiles.

Yeh your not wrong,its been going on for along time though the crossing of morelias in australia,the first time i heard it was with Merv hayes in an article around 1970 where he bred a carpet with a diamond.
Plenty get crossed all the time its just that the participants sell the offspring as what they most resemble or make up various names,few are actually written under license as the crosses they are and the offspring are on others books as pure and it goes on and on never to return.few people in australia or overseas admitt to crossing,they are always the result of matings with pure types.

 

[krefft]

BROWNS out of interest what is your view on the albino crosses?

Zulu i agree with your last post. It has been going on along time, and it will continue to go on. With that in mind let it be more out in the open, and if you don't like them, don't buy them. If enough people felt that way there would be no market for them and people would be less inclined to breed crosses.

 

[zulu]

Just my thoughts on the subject which are that the pics first posted may well be jags and are being made out to be years of hard work of crossbreeding and supposedly making hybrids to try and introduce jags into the hobby.We or most of us know there are jags in the country however there's the problem of legaly introducing them into the hobby so they can be sold otherwise if they can not be brought into the hobby they would be worth jack!!

The first pic in the first post of this thread looks to me like a poor quality BW Jungle and I've seen examples of BW Jungles with much the same patterning that make that animal in the first pic look ugly in comparison,and yest the BW's I've seen have also had practically the exact same head pattern as in the first pic which seems to be a trait many Julatten BW's tend to have ,call them reduced or wierd etc head patterns for jungles as opposed to the classic skull and crossbones normally associated with jungles.So what I'm getting at is that there is no need to cross animals making hybrids to look like the first pic of the animal on the first page as there are PURE BRED animals already being bred here in Australia that look better than any crossbred or hybrid animal does.

The second animal pictured certainly screams jag to me however I have seen lines of Athertons with similar patterning and colour as well as Whitsunday carpets that look very similar.Just take a look at what Jungleland is breeding along with a few others.I myself have seen a Whitsunday carpet that looked very very similar to the second pic with reduced head pattern as well,sorry no pics I could not get close enough to the animal However I do have pics of animals from the Whitsunday area that are very similar to some jags I've seen pics of which I'll find and throw a few pics up.Again there is no need to hybridise animals to try and produce animals that look like this and I highly doubt you would get many animals in a clutch of hybrids that look alike unless there is a genetic trait involved.We do have pure bred animals and wild examples that already look like that without the need to cross breed or hybridise.

The third pic is simply a tri striped jungle which I and I'm sure most of us have seen examples of jungles just the same and are pure bred even right down to the locality just like the first 2 pics previous.I'm sure many people have pics of animals much like this they may want to post up for an example.

The last pic also looks very jag like to me however take a look at many of the animals bred and owned by Jungle Freak"Roger" .He breeds some of the best reduced patterned jungles around and are pure with many pure to locality that look much nicer than the last pic posted of the animal on the first page of this thread.Again another example showing we don't need to cross or hybridise to get the desired look of the animals posted.

Then again that's just an example showing we have pure locality bred both captive and wild type animals that look just as good if not better than the supposed hybrids posted on the first page.If this is someone trying to get jags into the hobby seeing as it's pretty well known there are jags here in Australia brought in or smuggled from overseas just like many of the chondros in the country.The truth will or should show wether these animals are jags or not when they start being sold and someone ends up breeding a pair of these animals ending up with dead leucistics etc.Or when someone breeds one of these animals and a certain percentage produced look just like jags.We have to remember as has been said already that there are usually the best examples of jags we see pics of but for all the stunners bred there are also ugly duclings which we don't see and these will most likely be the animals chosen to get smuggled into Australia.We will also be able to tell if they are jags when some of them,not all,develope neurogical problems which is an affliction suffered by many jags and has been spoken about thoroughly on other forums such as mp.com.

Overall though my opinion for what it's worth is that these are jags other than the striped jungle which I'm assuming a small group of people or some person who are trying to legally bring them into the hobby by saying they are hybrids! If they are hybrids and not jags the variety of offspring from these hybrids will vary so much and you will not consistantly get animals looking like the ones posted and if they are jags it's going to be quite simple to find out.We have so many morphs out there in the wild and captivity which have either never been seen or bred before or are animals ppl own that have certain undiscovered genetic traits and that's with pure animals and with that why the need or want to crossbreed when you can achieve simialr results in most cases better than any hybrids or what they produce.Crossing any morelia with albinos is different again and should remain seperate from the type of supposed hybrids this thread is based on.

Also I thought there were animals with dom or co dom traits such as a few striped lines of coastals and Athertons and I myself produced a full clutch of striped animals from 2 very nice Whitsunday carpets where only one parent was striped and breeding from one of these striped carpets should again produce another clutch of all striped animals proving the trait which would not be recessive but dominant or co dom,I can't remember what the difference is lol

The th

Go away,your making sense bro :lol:

 

[SnakePower]

need to repost, tired!