Another question about intergrades

[SnakeWrangler]

I have no idea?? What is it??

 

[Greebo]

Do intergrades also suffer from DPS?

 

[peterescue]

HAHA, wrangler, Natural selection is ONE of the theories of evolution. :roll:
The Galopogas Islands?

 

[BROWNS]

The orignal species would have had the genetic information to create a wide variety of different sized and coloured/patterned offspring, as the snakes travelled down (unless they went up, who really knows for sure??) and came to areas that were colder the ones that were born with darker colours were able to survive the cold conditions due to better heat absortion, what this means is that only those specimens born with darker colours could survive there, because the others didn't, darker ones only had darker ones to breed with, therefore the ability to produced wide colour variants was slowly bred out and a stable colour form was created. This is natural selection, it is a distinct loss of genetic information.

Why is it then that there can be several different colour forms of diamonds in the same general locality?Same with jungles,not all are black and gold/yellow but still thrive,what about black and white jungles found in very small pockets,why are they that colour then,please explain?Same with the variation in most pythons for that matter as well as green tree snakes as another example,blue phase,gold phase,green phase and mixtures of each?

but unless someone who knows alot about genetics can tell me that my concept of them is wrong, I will continue to hold to it.

Time for sdaji's input i think he's the man you want to hear that from if he can explain in regular terminology :wink:

 

[Greebo]

If a Aussie GTP was bred with a New Guinea GTP....would the offspring technically be hybrids or intergrades. Or would they still be same species, even though they are technically different?

 

[SnakeWrangler]

Do intergrades also suffer from DPS?

I don't know, do they??

HAHA, wrangler, Natural selection is ONE of the theories of evolution.

Then explain to me how the "natural selection" theory can stand alone as a sole means of evolution??

 

[SnakeWrangler]

The orignal species would have had the genetic information to create a wide variety of different sized and coloured/patterned offspring, as the snakes travelled down (unless they went up, who really knows for sure??) and came to areas that were colder the ones that were born with darker colours were able to survive the cold conditions due to better heat absortion, what this means is that only those specimens born with darker colours could survive there, because the others didn't, darker ones only had darker ones to breed with, therefore the ability to produced wide colour variants was slowly bred out and a stable colour form was created. This is natural selection, it is a distinct loss of genetic information.

Why is it then that there can be several different colour forms of diamonds in the same general locality?Same with jungles,not all are black and gold/yellow but still thrive,what about black and white jungles found in very small pockets,why are they that colour then,please explain?Same with the variation in most pythons for that matter as well as green tree snakes as another example,blue phase,gold phase,green phase and mixtures of each?

but unless someone who knows alot about genetics can tell me that my concept of them is wrong, I will continue to hold to it.

Time for sdaji's input i think he's the man you want to hear that from if he can explain in regular terminology :wink:

Hot and cold are not the only adversities that an aminal faces when it encounters an environment, I never suggested that colour was the only means of "adapting" to an environment, I was responding to a previous post, not trying to expound the entire concept of natural selection.

If sdaji can show me that I have misunderstood genetics then I will accept my error. Would you if you were shown to be wrong?? I have never claimed to be an expert in genetics but I know this much.

If you had a snake, that could produce only three solid colour, either all offspring were red, green or blue. If you bred a pair and took all the blue ones, bred them only to other blue ones, and continued this for a long time, you would eventually end up with a sub-species of the original that would produced only blue snakes. Throw backs would be possible but very unlikely. It is very basic but hopefully you get the idea.

 

[SnakeWrangler]

HAHA, wrangler, Natural selection is ONE of the theories of evolution. :roll:
The Galopogas Islands?

Out of curiosity, if there are more then ONE theory of evolution, then which one is correct?? I though the term "theory" actually meant reasonable fact or whatever??

 

[BROWNS]

If a Aussie GTP was bred with a New Guinea GTP....would the offspring technically be hybrids or intergrades. Or would they still be same species, even though they are technically different?

I would say they'd be hybrids although the Southern part of PNG was connected to Australia thousands of years ago...supposedly there is not enough dna evidence to seperate the two but there is a difference,when you start talking further North in PNG then the dna is different i think"please correct me if i'm wrong"although still morelia viridis!

Wrangler you just keep barking up that tree mate :wink:

 

[Greebo]

Thanks Browns. Just wanted to throw in my own hypothetical question.

 

[SnakeWrangler]

If a Aussie GTP was bred with a New Guinea GTP....would the offspring technically be hybrids or intergrades. Or would they still be same species, even though they are technically different?

I would say they'd be hybrids although the Southern part of PNG was connected to Australia thousands of years ago...supposedly there is not enough dna evidence to seperate the two but there is a difference,when you start talking further North in PNG then the dna is different i think"please correct me if i'm wrong"although still morelia viridis!

Wrangler you just keep barking up that tree mate :wink:

Actually they would still be the same species just as the various Morelia are the same species, the stable variations between them make the sub-species, although one or the other had to come first, so really one is a sub-species of the other.

Well why don't you chop the tree down with some compelling idea that is contrary to mine??

 

[Pike01]

Yep i have seen intergrades with what looked like they have dps, but then again they could have been hybrids cause i dont know their origin. The answer to where coastals become coastals and diamonds become diamonds is there is no answer, they are all morelia spilota. To put it in simple terms if you say like bob intergrades stop at Karuah that means that they wont breed with diamonds from Raymond terrace and raymond terrace ones wont breed with Newcastle one and so on, there is always gene flow going both ways, up and down.and the same goes in northern NSW

 

[SnakeWrangler]

Bob has also said that there probably are hybrids where each forms meets, actually his other posts said that 20kms away the pure ones start, surely nobody thought he meant that there were no snakes in the 20kms that seperated them??

 

[BROWNS]

Actually they would still be the same species just as the various Morelia are the same species, the stable variations between them make the sub-species, although one or the other had to come first, so really one is a sub-species of the other.

So you're now going to argue with dna results???Could you be able to please explain the parrallel evolution theory behind GTP'S and emerald tree boas...my turn to throw in something hypothetical again :lol:

Well why don't you chop the tree down with some compelling idea that is contrary to mine??

Nah thanks man,you're doing a great job mate,you've put forward some good theories but are still off the rails!!! I am pretty sure that most if not all of what i have said is contrary to what you have said....wake up and smell the roses dude :roll:

 

[dee4]

I know almost everyone will disagree but it is not really evolution when a single species branches into sub-species. The orignal species would have had the genetic information to create a wide variety of different sized and coloured/patterned offspring,

So technically the weeker died off and the stronger lived!!!
Hmm, I think that could be a form of evolving.

 

[SnakeWrangler]

If a Aussie GTP was bred with a New Guinea GTP....would the offspring technically be hybrids or intergrades. Or would they still be same species, even though they are technically different?

I personally would term them to be "locality hybrids", just like a diamond X coastal. I say locality because the same species breeding cannot truly be called a hybrid, but for the sake of maintaining the various forms they cannot be named as pure anything.

Hmm... Its been a while since someone posted, something must be brewing, I hope it isnt hypothetical conjecture... :lol:

The quote above is what I was just about to post, but I guess there wasn't anything afterall.

So you're now going to argue with dna results???

So DNA states that these two forms of GTP are seperate species??? I doubt it.

So technically the weeker died off and the stronger lived!!!

Actually none of the snakes were weak, just not suited to the environment.
--- EDIT ---
It would be just like you trying to live in the north pole without any warmth, it doesn't make you weak, just simply not made for it.
--- EDIT ---

wake up and smell the roses dude

I am barking up a rose bush dude, I can smell the roses fine... :lol:

 

[Guest]

Greebs all spilota get diamond python syndrome that includes intergrade colour forms and carpet including jungle.Diamonds mostly get it ,ok when your small dark and growing but when your adult and slow down the energy levels being taken in cant be used.So when your a crawling solar cell that gets too much heat and too much food low parrisite levels and cant lose the pent up energy in maternal incubation you have a break down mental and physicaly that manifests itself in a wide variety of symptoms.

 

[Pike01]

snake wrangler, you missed the point, I never said or implied there was 20kms with no snakes, my point was the opposite. THERE IS A CONTINOUS GENE FLOW. You can say that at karuah you can start to notice carpet traits and pattern but you cant say that intergrades north of there diamonds south of there. It is one species that slowly changes. Have a look in cogger, the carpet there is obviously an intergrade. So please dont twist what i say to make me look wrong.

 

[SnakeWrangler]

So when your a crawling solar cell that gets too much heat and too much food low parrisite levels and cant lose the pent up energy in maternal incubation you have a break down mental and physicaly that manifests itself in a wide variety of symptoms.

I don't think I have ever heard this idea about DPS before. More hypotheticals... :lol: Just kidding. It actually sounds like an interesting idea.

snake wrangler, you missed the point, I never said or implied there was 20kms with no snakes, my point was the opposite. THERE IS A CONTINOUS GENE FLOW. You can say that at karuah you can start to notice carpet traits and pattern but you cant say that intergrades north of there diamonds south of there. It is one species that slowly changes. Have a look in cogger, the carpet there is obviously an intergrade. So please dont twist what i say to make me look wrong.

I never said you said anything about 20kms!!! I said Bob said in a previous post, my question about anyone thinking Bob meant there were no snakes in that 20kms, was directed to anyone who thought it, if you never thought it then why did you think I was talking to you, you placed yourself within the anyone that I spoke to. Read my posts properly before posting a reply to me, If you have something to add to the current discussions then please do, but dont try and attack my character for no reason. :shock:

 

[Greebo]

I've just been tidying up the photo galleries (again), Snakewrangler, I notice you have only 3 photos in your gallery. You should really update it and add some more pics. How many snakes have you got now?