I am trying a way that David Ludtz suggested. Hopes this works.
If it does heres Greg Maxwell's rely that states do not use his book to say the Merauke and Cape yorks have no differences, and take special note of his comments re Obees pictures I sent him. Of cause Obee will probably say Gregs wrong as well. What would Greg know anyway, he only wrote the first book on these snakes afterall.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Maxwell
To: Snaketails
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: Green pythons
Hi Bob,
I'm sorry to hear that my book is being used (inadvertently or intentionally) to market various color forms of green tree pythons as locality or race specific. The chapter in my book on wild race descriptions was intended as a general overview of the species and was based on the available information I had, and on generally accepted phenotype descriptions. I made it abundantly clear that specific claims of race or locality MUST be documented or they are nearly worthless. I have fought long and hard against those here in the US making bogus claims merely to sell animals, and it comes as no surprise to me that you are apparently having to do the same thing. It must be stated that my book is a popular account (not a scientific study) that focuses mainly on the captive husbandry and breeding of GTPs. It should definitely not be used to bolster the locality claims of animal dealers!
Here is a statement that you can use for your discussion forum:
"The Complete Chondro is a popular-style book that focuses primarily on the captive husbandry and breeding of Morelia viridis in the United States. The chapter on race and locality typing was included for general informational purposes, and was not intended as an authoritative statement about taxonomic or phenotypic issues. I believe that overall, the text is accurate and useful, but it should not be used to substantiate locality claims by animal dealers. Any specific race or geographic locality claim MUST be accompanied with verifiable documentation or it is nearly meaningless. Identifying various specimens based on outward appearance is highly speculative, and buyers and sellers of green tree pythons do so mostly out of wishful thinking. Of course, there are some legitimate locality chondros in collections and breeding programs, but these claims must be based on sound data for the founder animals, not some reptile dealer's opinion. My book should not be used as a proof reference that no differences can be established between PNG, Merauke, or Cape York specimens." Greg maxwell
As far as identifying the animals in the photos you sent, I have seen dozens if not hundreds that look very similar. These have been identified as Aru, PNG "mainland". Again, without any specific data, making anything close to an accurate identification is difficult. I have seen captive produced offspring from Barker-collected Meraukes that can't outwardly be distinguished from the average Aru specimen. I hope this helps.
Take care,
Greg Maxwell
And if I am lucky heres the email from David Wilson. This was the first time I had ever heard of Aussie Greens with any sort of Blue Markings as you can read from my post to David. This was discovered after I had posted a thread on Greens that Ad used at the start off this thread. Was I being inconsistant. No. I just learned something new with Davids email. You are always learning. Thats the name of the game.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Wilson" <
[email protected]>
To: "Snaketails" <
[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: Green Tree Pythons
> Bob,
> Yes, I'm doing a phd on green pythons at Iron Range. I'm just about to
> start my second wet season up here with lots of things going on.
> The 80 or so that I have seen have been fairly consistent in their
> patterning. All were light green with a single broken white or yellow line
> of scales along their 'spine'. If individuals had blue patches these were
> small (<5cm) and occurred apparently randomly on the body, with up to
three
> patches on an individual. No big blotches and definitely no lines (of any
> colour - also no triangular coloured scales coming off the spine like from
> some NG specimens). Some also had small blue patches (only a few scales)
on
> their heads. In all other respects these were similar to the normal
> patterning. None of these was anything like the 'blues' that some breeders
> advertise from the US.
> I don't have any good photos of
> chondros with blue patches, but will try this year.
> Sometime before I finish I'd like to have a chat about your chondro
> experiences. Perhaps next year when I come out of the jungle.
> Cheers, Dave
>
>
> At 06:09 PM 20/09/2003 +1000, you wrote:
> >David,
> >
> >I was speaking to Tim at Ultimate the other day and he told me about your
> >reseach on the GTP's at Iron Range.
> >
> >I have been involved with Aussie Greens for nearly 20 years. I currently
> >own 1 male, and know of only another 6 in private collections in
> >Australia. All I have seen over the last 20 years shared the same
> >background colour and paterning. That is a lighter green colour with
> >either yellow or white spots spread out along their backbone. I have yet
> >to see one from Australia which was covered in Blue blotches or lines.
> >> >
> >If you had any pic's of these blue marked specimens, I would love to see
them.
> >
> >My male was origionally bred by Rob Bredl. The parents were collected
> >under permit by his father Joe from Iron Range. Of the
> >2 clutches Robby bred only a few are alive today.
> >
> >I have attached a pic of my male, which is the typical type of Aussie GTP
> >that I have seen.
> >
> >Regards
> >Bob Withey
> >Australian Reptile Displays
Oh, and my very last word on this subject. Obee stated that the picture of my Aussie Green had blue markings, and then inferred mine must be from Southern PNG as well. . Everyone, go back and look at the picture I attached to my thread. If you can see blue blotches or lines on that snake you have better eyesight than me. Keep throwing the mud Obee, but I am affraid the evidence just keeps on mounting against you.
Sooner or later, you are just going to have to bite the bullet and admit yours are not pure Australians as they have PNG bloodlines as even you admitted knowing about. Advertise them truthfully. That is Green Pythons with legally imported PNG bloodlines which are absolutly safe from confiscations.
By your own reasoning that Meraukes are Australian, than every other PNG Green in Australia is also a Aussie Type, so therefore theirs are all legal to. So why advertise yours are the only safe ones to buy. You cant have it both ways, if you base it just on DNA and the difference is not big enough for a court of law, then every PNG Green in Australia is an Aussie type so everyones is legal as well. Great aguement.
