Cockney_Red
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If my exclamation of extreme exasperation flew over your Swede mate, I'm sure 90% of posters on this thread, read your post with the same reaction as mine...
It's all in the colour
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If my exclamation of extreme exasperation flew over your Swede mate, I'm sure 90% of posters on this thread, read your post with the same reaction as mine...
Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
If my exclamation of extreme exasperation flew over your Swede mate, I'm sure 90% of posters on this thread, read your post with the same reaction as mine...
Oh I'm sure they would have, though you were the only one to provide such a well thought response.
Cockney_Red
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cement
Very Well-Known Member
Was gonna comment, but then had to go relocate a death adder. A common, average one, in colour and size but what was interesting was its movements for the past 24 hrs at this time of year.
If i ever get that sort of a buzz out of looking at jags in cages, i'll give up.
Now before any of you pro jag people take to me with your voodoo dolls and backstabbing, read what i wrote again and understand that I am not making comment on you, personally.
If i ever get that sort of a buzz out of looking at jags in cages, i'll give up.
Now before any of you pro jag people take to me with your voodoo dolls and backstabbing, read what i wrote again and understand that I am not making comment on you, personally.
GeckoJosh
Almost Legendary
Your right, but only because that is one cracking jungle!!!!!, if the jungle wasnt so nice I would pick the Woma though.
So do I get to keep the Jungle now?
What were ir's movements?
Snakewoman
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My female proserpine coastal and female Bredli are the best coloured snakes I have, my other four could be considered by some to have 'boring' colouration, a dark coastal, dark water python, olive python and MD. Though they aren't bright, I consider them to be stunning animals, and I love observing their behaviour, they all act differently. My olive is by far the most active and is very inquisitive and has a wonderful temperament. I appreciate a snake that has nice colours but temperament is more important to me. I love jungles, they're stunning, but if they behave like chainsaws like my mother's jungle does, then I certainly wouldn't be buying it.
The Devil
Very Well-Known Member
No sorry, you missed out on the jungle. She went to Melbourne a few months ago......
Fantazmic
Very Well-Known Member
wow what a thread. I have read the whole thing and I have learned quite a bit as a noob and now...as always...I have to have a say.
I did comment on the original ball python X carpet thread in terms of saying that you dont have to hybridise in order to breed a nice coloured snake...and put a pic up of my exotic marked jungle.
I think (as a noob) that i stand by what i meant when I commented on that thread and that is that I would prefer a 'pure bred' (hope thats the right term) over a hybrid anyday.
I think this comes from my appreciation of the generations and generations of careful breeding it takes to create anything unusual from pure stock (not saying that if you went down the pathway of trying to breed a hybrid the same wouldnt apply I get that)...whereas throwing two different snakes together to 'see what you get' can give an instant very spectacular result...if you are lucky....but isnt a result with any substance.....as a line bred snake has the potential to continue to produce attractive animals for generations to come...(hope I'm making sense) I guess i am thinking about hybridising in terms of what do you do next? I mean you get such a mix of types....and the progeny.... what next ?....whereas I guess i view careful breeding with pure snakes to have more of a predctable result (although I admit not always but mostly)
I know some of you will think that I'm talking rubbish but it is what I think.
I do love colour but I also think temperament is everything......we are one of those....love snakes but didnt know we did till recently types.....and our friends are the same in fact they think they are terrified till proven otherwise. I have been incrediby lucky in that all four of my jungles that I have bought are darlings...with their temperaments getting more placcid and their markings more beautiful with each one I have bought. The ongoing benefit of this is that my snakes have been wonderful ambassadors for the hobby.
I am getting the feeling that there are some of you in this thread that are most annoyed with the rapid growth of the hobby and the hackneyed noobs that are out there....me being one of them....however there are an awful lot of those noobs who are very well intentioned and although know nothing about their snakes in natural habitat and their history etc........are trying their hardest to provide their snakes with the very best care that they possibly can and for that they should be congratulated. Also, I can tell you.....from my days breeding Staffords.....I would value a well intentioned good home over a breeders home anyday.......because it is the care of the animal that is so important.
I have bought my snakes because one day....maybe...and I havent decided yet....my hubby and I might like to have a clutch of jungles. I am fortunate to have kept in contact with both of the breeders I bought from and they have said they will mentor me if I do decide to breed. However, as much as we have bought our snakes for their potential as breeding animals...they are and always will be our pets first.....and yes...my favourite girl Elvira cant sit on the computer screen and watch (hunt) my fingers as they type...because she has grown too large....but she loves nothing more to sit on my lap and watch telly....does it make her any less the beautiful example of an atherton tablelands jungle python
ABSOLUTELY NOT !!
Just my two cents worth...oh and Michael......I know it has really had its moments...but thanks for starting such a controversial thread....its by reading that I have learned what I have...and right or wrong...have cemented my views regarding what I think is a valuable contribution to the hobby.....(right or wrong popular or unpopular) and if people dont post...and...debate....us noobs dont get experience and learn
Regards
Elizabeth
I did comment on the original ball python X carpet thread in terms of saying that you dont have to hybridise in order to breed a nice coloured snake...and put a pic up of my exotic marked jungle.
I think (as a noob) that i stand by what i meant when I commented on that thread and that is that I would prefer a 'pure bred' (hope thats the right term) over a hybrid anyday.
I think this comes from my appreciation of the generations and generations of careful breeding it takes to create anything unusual from pure stock (not saying that if you went down the pathway of trying to breed a hybrid the same wouldnt apply I get that)...whereas throwing two different snakes together to 'see what you get' can give an instant very spectacular result...if you are lucky....but isnt a result with any substance.....as a line bred snake has the potential to continue to produce attractive animals for generations to come...(hope I'm making sense) I guess i am thinking about hybridising in terms of what do you do next? I mean you get such a mix of types....and the progeny.... what next ?....whereas I guess i view careful breeding with pure snakes to have more of a predctable result (although I admit not always but mostly)
I know some of you will think that I'm talking rubbish but it is what I think.
I do love colour but I also think temperament is everything......we are one of those....love snakes but didnt know we did till recently types.....and our friends are the same in fact they think they are terrified till proven otherwise. I have been incrediby lucky in that all four of my jungles that I have bought are darlings...with their temperaments getting more placcid and their markings more beautiful with each one I have bought. The ongoing benefit of this is that my snakes have been wonderful ambassadors for the hobby.
I am getting the feeling that there are some of you in this thread that are most annoyed with the rapid growth of the hobby and the hackneyed noobs that are out there....me being one of them....however there are an awful lot of those noobs who are very well intentioned and although know nothing about their snakes in natural habitat and their history etc........are trying their hardest to provide their snakes with the very best care that they possibly can and for that they should be congratulated. Also, I can tell you.....from my days breeding Staffords.....I would value a well intentioned good home over a breeders home anyday.......because it is the care of the animal that is so important.
I have bought my snakes because one day....maybe...and I havent decided yet....my hubby and I might like to have a clutch of jungles. I am fortunate to have kept in contact with both of the breeders I bought from and they have said they will mentor me if I do decide to breed. However, as much as we have bought our snakes for their potential as breeding animals...they are and always will be our pets first.....and yes...my favourite girl Elvira cant sit on the computer screen and watch (hunt) my fingers as they type...because she has grown too large....but she loves nothing more to sit on my lap and watch telly....does it make her any less the beautiful example of an atherton tablelands jungle python
ABSOLUTELY NOT !!
Just my two cents worth...oh and Michael......I know it has really had its moments...but thanks for starting such a controversial thread....its by reading that I have learned what I have...and right or wrong...have cemented my views regarding what I think is a valuable contribution to the hobby.....(right or wrong popular or unpopular) and if people dont post...and...debate....us noobs dont get experience and learn
Regards
Elizabeth
I checked out another forum, looked at the 'Morelia carinata' subforum, and had a look at some picc in a few threads.
I saw one post from a man in Michigan 'Give me a corn snake over a Roughie anyday'. I then read another one, 'I'll get one, but only when the Jaguar gene is in it.'
It really is all in the colour...
I saw one post from a man in Michigan 'Give me a corn snake over a Roughie anyday'. I then read another one, 'I'll get one, but only when the Jaguar gene is in it.'
It really is all in the colour...
.... completely off the topic, impartial and inoffensive.
Someone emailed me today: "waterrat, do you love your snakes or is it just .....?"
I thought long and hard and my answer is - No, I don't love my snakes, I love my wife but I do look after my snakes with love. Is it strange?
Someone emailed me today: "waterrat, do you love your snakes or is it just .....?"
I thought long and hard and my answer is - No, I don't love my snakes, I love my wife but I do look after my snakes with love. Is it strange?
Jay84
Very Well-Known Member
No, i spend more time with my snakes in the evenings than i do with my partner lol
Im always in trouble for this.
Jay84
Very Well-Known Member
They are worth it hahaha
saximus
Almost Legendary
I got in trouble when I told my girl that the biggest thing I miss when working interstate is my snakes...
I'm new to snakes and, like another poster mentioned, am therefore still sorting out my opinions. These are my current thoughts, which might be open to revision as I come to understand more about the intricacies and ethics of breeding.
At the moment I'm probably halfway between a pet owner and a naturalist - I love my little stimmie like a family member, but I'm also very interested in where her ancestors came from. For me, a large part of keeping reptiles is knowing something about them. I think it helps me to understand their behaviour and how to keep them in an optimal environment.
While I confess I am attracted to pretty, what I've found pretty so far tends to be something that looks like it could occur in nature. A nice jungle - like the one the Devil posted a few pages back - excites me. Jags do not. To me, crossing a jag morph with a pure carpet ends up looking like a muddy, less-attractive version of the carpet. Even if I did find it attractive, I couldn't bear to purchase a snake that might suffer from neurological difficulties.
Some have alluded to the higher risk of death or damage when different species of snakes are put together to breed. Although it might result in a beautiful snake, that danger would weigh on my mind. Accidents can always happen where snakes are concerned, but I wouldn't want any snake put in extra jeopardy just to create something that pleases me.
There have been quite a few constructive, interesting comments in this thread and I've learned a lot. I'll keep checking by for as long as the debate continues.
At the moment I'm probably halfway between a pet owner and a naturalist - I love my little stimmie like a family member, but I'm also very interested in where her ancestors came from. For me, a large part of keeping reptiles is knowing something about them. I think it helps me to understand their behaviour and how to keep them in an optimal environment.
While I confess I am attracted to pretty, what I've found pretty so far tends to be something that looks like it could occur in nature. A nice jungle - like the one the Devil posted a few pages back - excites me. Jags do not. To me, crossing a jag morph with a pure carpet ends up looking like a muddy, less-attractive version of the carpet. Even if I did find it attractive, I couldn't bear to purchase a snake that might suffer from neurological difficulties.
Some have alluded to the higher risk of death or damage when different species of snakes are put together to breed. Although it might result in a beautiful snake, that danger would weigh on my mind. Accidents can always happen where snakes are concerned, but I wouldn't want any snake put in extra jeopardy just to create something that pleases me.
There have been quite a few constructive, interesting comments in this thread and I've learned a lot. I'll keep checking by for as long as the debate continues.
Fantazmic
Very Well-Known Member
Two things.....firstly something you all dont know about me is I am a relationships counsellor and Michael...you are right on the money......when you say you love your partner the most.....
something I didnt say in my earlier post and it relates back to what Renenet was saying.....if you have a pure jungle and you put it with another jungle you get baby jungles....some will have better markings than others.....but at the end of the day you get jungles and all have the same potential to go on and produce more jungles.....you know what to expect temperament wise and most importantly husbandry wise.....and if you are careful not to breed in too closely......normally unless you have bad luck you should have healthy offfspring. and each of those offspring...brightly coloured or not have the same potential to go on and contribute.......
However if you crossbreed you will have a large variation in offspring for many generations no matter how carefully you breed.....you may get an instant result of a very attractive snake (in some peoples eyes)....but is it likely to produce itself again.....probably not becaue it is an outcross of two completely different snakes........and what do you do next to produce that attractive snake again ? and what are you trying to produce.....i mean if you breed a pure snake you know clearly where you are going and in each generation what you are trying to improve......but it seems with hybrids it is all in the colour....and temperament...well you could get anything...behaviour...welll who knows.... and husbandry needs....well you might you might not get it right.....
and this is why i like pure bred snakes in terms of the ongoing contribution to the hobby in terms of breeding.
Something I have thought of on and off and cannot in my own mind think how it would work....is has there ever been thought around a central register for pure bred snakes....like we have for thoroughbred dogs?
something I didnt say in my earlier post and it relates back to what Renenet was saying.....if you have a pure jungle and you put it with another jungle you get baby jungles....some will have better markings than others.....but at the end of the day you get jungles and all have the same potential to go on and produce more jungles.....you know what to expect temperament wise and most importantly husbandry wise.....and if you are careful not to breed in too closely......normally unless you have bad luck you should have healthy offfspring. and each of those offspring...brightly coloured or not have the same potential to go on and contribute.......
However if you crossbreed you will have a large variation in offspring for many generations no matter how carefully you breed.....you may get an instant result of a very attractive snake (in some peoples eyes)....but is it likely to produce itself again.....probably not becaue it is an outcross of two completely different snakes........and what do you do next to produce that attractive snake again ? and what are you trying to produce.....i mean if you breed a pure snake you know clearly where you are going and in each generation what you are trying to improve......but it seems with hybrids it is all in the colour....and temperament...well you could get anything...behaviour...welll who knows.... and husbandry needs....well you might you might not get it right.....
and this is why i like pure bred snakes in terms of the ongoing contribution to the hobby in terms of breeding.
Something I have thought of on and off and cannot in my own mind think how it would work....is has there ever been thought around a central register for pure bred snakes....like we have for thoroughbred dogs?
I believe something on those line is happening right now in Vic. Can't say any more, perhaps the people involved (APS members) may like to comment.
Good to hear that the wheels are turning.
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