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Still I doubt the people that have a couple of geckos and a python a few centimetres under the minimum will be in much danger. It will be people with big collections that they will target.

Herein lies the problem - once the Code has been enshrined in law, the overseers don't have the right to exercise discretion. Your enclosures are either compliant or they are not, and an inspector cannot say "well you're a good bloke so we'll let you get away with it." It can't be one rule for some, regardless of the number of animals you have. I don't have a big collection, but why should people with big collections be singled out for attention?

Jamie
 
I hope you keep water bowls in all you gecko enclosures Chris. Despite them not needing it or drinking from them you can be prosecuted for not providing them.

actually, i have upside down terracotta saucers in all the cages, 2 in the bigger ones. i mist them every night till theres a good puddle on each, and they dry out during the day so they do get fresh water daily.

i see the geckos using them quite often, which i didnt expect, but they do...

(it was actually a pic u posted of ur amyae drinking from a bowl that insipred me to try it,...)
 
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with the joy of some people who agree with this moronic beaurocratic sledgehammer,how many reps do you think will be dumped because of this draconian law??? because ppl who now DONT HAVE the space to keep the reps they do,could very well just drive out to the nearest forest and let them go...... or like it was suggested,just let their licence lapse and still keep their reps as they were doing.....not very smart of you to agree.......
 
do you think they have the man power to check everyone's collection?

Irrespective of such, do you think that limited manpower will stop them checking and prosecuting if they deem it necessary?
 
with the joy of some people who agree with this moronic beaurocratic sledgehammer,how many reps do you think will be dumped because of this draconian law??? because ppl who now DONT HAVE the space to keep the reps they do,could very well just drive out to the nearest forest and let them go...... or like it was suggested,just let their licence lapse and still keep their reps as they were doing.....not very smart of you to agree.......

This. Why even have a license apart from needing it to get herps from breeders? (If they aren't shady). This will just make people ditch it and keep herps in secret, basically..
 
Irrespective of such, do you think that limited manpower will stop them checking if they deem it necessary?
Like all government departments, they will operate on a risk-management basis. So they will target "non-compliance" and where they see risk. That means they will most likely do two things: 1) act on information or intelligence, or 2) target licence holders who pose the greatest risk. Think about it: if you had a budget to conduct enforcement activities, would you go and look at John Smith, who has a single Mac in a fish tank and holds a Companion Licence, or Bill Bloggs who has a Cat 2 licence and breeds animals? It costs the same to go out and visit both, but the potential results are very different. Trust me, I did law enforcement for 15 years. The idea that they will do "random" checks would be very unlikely. It would be very poor practice ... spending a lot of money for limited results. I mean, I hope they do. They'll run out of budget in no time!!! :lol: But as I said earlier, don't be caught out. Read the Guidelines, do your homework. The best defence is to be ready.
 
Did anyone come across what penalties will be imposed for non compliance?
 
Irrespective of such, do you think that limited manpower will stop them checking and prosecuting if they deem it necessary?
you are right and like some said before they will target people with larger collections because then they are more likely to be able to issue fines and make seizures of animals to make it look like they are actually doing something. this will drive even more people underground now.
 
Like all government departments, they will operate on a risk-management basis. So they will target "non-compliance" and where they see risk. That means they will most likely do two things: 1) act on information or intelligence, or 2) target licence holders who pose the greatest risk. Think about it: if you had a budget to conduct enforcement activities, would you go and look at John Smith, who has a single Mac in a fish tank and holds a Companion Licence, or Bill Bloggs who has a Cat 2 licence and breeds animals? It costs the same to go out and visit both, but the potential results are very different. Trust me, I did law enforcement for 15 years. The idea that they will do "random" checks would be very unlikely. It would be very poor practice ... spending a lot of money for limited results. I mean, I hope they do. They'll run out of budget in no time!!! :lol: But as I said earlier, don't be caught out. Read the Guidelines, do your homework. The best defence is to be ready.

but if bill bloggs doesn't have a license they don't know where he lives and don't have the resources or budget to find him. less people renewing their license, means less money for the department budget so even less enforcement... with all the budget cuts by government they are just shooting themselves in the foot.
 
When they state this "standard"

4.3.1.1 The enclosure’s shortest floor dimension must not be less than 20% of the total length of the largest snake being housed

are they saying a 1.2m python will require a cage width (shortest floor dimension) of 0.960m (1.2 - 20%)?
or am i reading it wrong?
 
but if bill bloggs doesn't have a license they don't know where he lives and don't have the resources or budget to find him. less people renewing their license, means less money for the department budget so even less enforcement... with all the budget cuts by government they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Yes but they have records of what people kept before letting their licenses expire so those people would then be open for an inspection,confiscations and subsequent fines for keeping native animals without the appropriate license.
 
Did anyone come across what penalties will be imposed for non compliance?
Don't want to get too complicated here, but it isn't the Guidelines that impose penalties. It is the National Parks and Wildlife legislation. Under this law the guidelines and licensing arrangements are made. So, check the conditions on your licence. On mine it states: it is an offence under the National Parks and Wildlife Regulations (2009) to breach any of the conditions of this licence... There are 14 General Conditions, including compliance with "conditions or instructions that the department may issue from time to time." The maximum penalty is $3,000, plus - licences can be suspended. I would imagine cases of excessive cruelty etc would carry higher penalties and gaol time, under other laws.
 
When they state this "standard"

4.3.1.1 The enclosure’s shortest floor dimension must not be less than 20% of the total length of the largest snake being housed

are they saying a 1.2m python will require a cage width (shortest floor dimension) of 0.960m (1.2 - 20%)?
or am i reading it wrong?

I believe that would make the shortest floor measurement 0.24m.

Wing_Nut
 
When they state this "standard"

4.3.1.1 The enclosure’s shortest floor dimension must not be less than 20% of the total length of the largest snake being housed

are they saying a 1.2m python will require a cage width (shortest floor dimension) of 0.960m (1.2 - 20%)?
or am i reading it wrong?

im reading that as 24cms being the shortest floor dimension for a 1.2m python (20% of 1.2m)

oops, wing nut beat me,...
 
but if bill bloggs doesn't have a license they don't know where he lives and don't have the resources or budget to find him. less people renewing their license, means less money for the department budget so even less enforcement... with all the budget cuts by government they are just shooting themselves in the foot.
Exactly right. So unless someone dobs Bill Bloggs in, he won't be caught. A lot of this is about appeasing lobby groups etc who will complain that pet shops are selling herps to anyone. The Minister - who in NSW doesn't have a great track record of achievement - can come out and say "no, we've set standards and these will be enforced."
 
Yes but they have records of what people kept before letting their licenses expire so those people would then be open for an inspection,confiscations and subsequent fines for keeping native animals without the appropriate license.

I have a friend that had 50 snakes and didn't renew his license no one has come to his house for an inspection in that was 3 and abit years ago now. I guess in 12months time we will find out how far they will take these new reg....
 
Cage dimensions = 0.5(max length of snake) x 0.2(max length of snake)

This is even smaller than many of the published experts recommended in many "bibles" of python husbandry.

Wing_Nut
 
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